First I'd like to say what a great game Skyrim is - even though it still has many bugs that need to be fixed. I would like to thank Bethesda and the DEVs for the fixes they have already done and are currently working on.

However, I simply do not understand why you have never fixed the stutter bug issue (known as the 64hz microstutter) in any of your game engines. And yes, its in skyrim now because the creation engine used for making Skyrim is not new at all - its only a modified gamebryo engine. It has been in oblivion, Fallout, Fallout New Vegas, and now Skyrim.

This bug is not a performance issue at all - but the way your engine works. A issue that many gamers have worked at fixing (and have in your previous games).

I had to wait 7 months after purchasing Fallout New Vegas before someone fixed the issue using the Fallout New Vegas Script Extender before I could even play Fallout New Vegas.

Granted, Skyrims Non-Performance Micro-stutter is not as bad, but its most definitely still here. There are varous work arounds for it - Skyrim Frame Rate Limiter (Does Not work for everyone), Nvidia Inspector (Does not work for everyone), Windowed Mode (Does not work for everyone), Dxtory Frame rate Limiter (Helps and Works for me), etc...

But none of these gets rid of the issue completely, they only help reduce the problem to varying degrees.

Please Bethesda - I love your games - But enough is enough. You need to fix this once and for all. I simply can not bring myself to purchase any more of your sand box games until you do.

Please keep in mind, for those who are going to post replies. This Microstutter I am talking about is not performanced based, its not do to fluxuating frame rates, or even the Mointor Frequency (although Higher Frequencies help mask the issue). Its do to the Skyrim Creation Engine (Modified Gamebryo Engine). And I, along with many others - Have had to deal with this since Oblivion regardless of what computer system or video card.

Please - lets get some team effort here in letting the DEVs and Bethesda know that we really would like them to fix the issue once and for all.

Thank-you.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2595949

I may be able to help. Do you mean the frame "skip" that happens every couple of seconds? Or do you mean the stutter that only happens in certain areas and makes the game feel like its running at 10fps, even though your fps reads 60?

Pretty sure he is referring to the .."skip your brain takes every other second"....because something is not in sync. Capping the frame rate, to something below your monitors refresh helps...but is still there. When not controlled , it makes me seasick. This was never a FPS issue.

Some people never notice this...Others ..makes them sick.

And you are so correct - it never was/is a FPS issue. It also irritates people as well. No excuse for it anymore.

Honestly, I have played all these games (for many hours) and have never encountered this problem you describe.
My Skyrim runs fast, fluid and smooth.
Just like my Fallout and my Oblivion...
How is this possible?

Maybe you just haven't noticed. Skyranger-1 who created the stutter remover mods for all those games fixed the 64hz bug that's there in the game engines.

Have a look on the nexus for stutter remover for oblivion and the fallouts. You'll see what it is.

You would be the only one then, because IT IS in all their games. Expecially in outdoors scenes. It's as though it's stuttering as it renders distant scenes. You can clearly see this happening in those games - Oblivion, Fallout 3, Fallout New Vegas, Skyrim. Google stuttering/microstuttering with any one of those games and you'll find tons of posts on it. As a poster in my Skyrim thread here: http://www.sevenforums.com/gaming/198691-discuss-skyrim-50.html#post1709774 posted - it's like it's a Bethesda game signature.

Just because you haven't noticed the issue doesn't mean it isn't there, it just means you haven't noticed it.

Anyway I completely agree with the OP. I'll aslo add that he originally posted this in the Steam forums and I and others suggested he post it here, as well as e-mail Bethesda - http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2595949

Just this weekend, i dug up an old OpenGL App i made a few years ago and checked on my code, and sure enough, i was also using the the GetTickCount() timer, just like Bethesda.
With a 16 millisecond resolution, you end up with roughly 64 fps. If your game engine heavily relies on this for the timing of other tasks/threads, you're losing 4 frames every second, resulting in the micro-stutter.

In my code, i simply replaced GetTickCount() with QueryPerformanceCounter() which has a much higher resolution.


It's not that hard, really ...

Here's the code snippet for using QueryPerformanceCounter():


Define this:

...
LARGE_INTEGER liTimerFrequency;
LARGE_INTEGER liTimerStart;
LARGE_INTEGER liTimerEnd;
double dTimeElapsed;
int iFps;
...

In your Init() add this

...
// Get the frame counter frequency and start the counter
QueryPerformanceFrequency(&liTimerFrequency);
QueryPerformanceCounter(&liTimerStart);
...

In your Render() loop, use this:

...
// Calculate the time needed for this frame and update the fps counter
QueryPerformanceCounter(&liTimerEnd);
dTimeElapsed = (((double)liTimerEnd.QuadPart - (double)liTimerStart.QuadPart) / (double)liTimerFrequency.QuadPart) * 1000;
QueryPerformanceCounter(&liTimerStart);
iFps = (int)(1000 / dTimeElapsed);
...

On most modern PCs the above has a much better resolution than using GetTickCount()

Maybe only those folk who are susceptible to strobing lights which lead to epileptic seizures are also sensitive to this microstutter. There was a comment that microstutter made the player sick. Honestly, I've read a lot of the complaints in these forums and tried to spot microstutter in my Skyrim. I've looked for it indoors and in various outdoor scenes. My game is absolutely smooth and without stuttering. Maybe it's my brain able to smooth out the stutter, IDK, but some others don't seem to cope. I am sorry for you and damn glad I am not a sufferer.

It's there if you know what to look for.

Since the timer implementation is hardware dependent the effect is more pronounced on some systems than others.
Personally, it doesn't bother me on my current system, my old rig was much worse when playing Oblivion.

The point of this thread should be the fact that this is fairly easy to resolve in the code.

(Disclaimer: Of course, i don't actually know Bethesda's code, so their opinion on that might differ).

If your monitors normal refresh rate is 59Hz (or anything lower, TV's ect) you wouldnt see it, its only 60hz monitors that seem to have the issue, 64/60 is the issue

it's probably to do with the havok physics engine, isnt sitting well with the 64hz engine when it has to display 60FPS on 60Hz monitors

LoL, okay...
I can speak just for myself, however in my game I didn't notice it because it isn't noticeable.
(But then, I have played Oblivion for only ~1800 hours.)
Whatever. But if you guys have found a technical problem they could easily resolve, then that's good!
Therefore, thanks I guess...

Mine is a 60Hz monitor. My game runs at 60fps most of the time. I've never "noticed" the problem. If I have the microstutter which apparently I do according to others here, then I am not sensitive to it. Not only have I not "noticed" it, it has never made me ill, or otherwise affected my game. I have now clocked up about 400hours on four characters in Skyrim and 1500hours in Oblivion. I am told I have to "look for" the microstutter. What the heck? I am not looking for anything except smooth flowing graphics and frame rate. If it is happening, the effect is so minor that it's imperceptible. Maybe those who see it have monitors which have different response times to mine which is 7ms. Is yours faster? Slower? Maybe try a different monitor? Just a thought. My sympathies.

Understandably some people might not get it, others simply don't notice it (I wish I was you). I'll post a little video in a bit showing it in New Vegas.

Be warned though, once you see it in action, you may start seeing it in your own game

Here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MII4TO-G634

Now Skyrim has improved in terms of stutter, over past games. But it is there and very bad in certain areas, with certain light conditions, and only in first person. This is were using a framerate limiter and locking frames at 60fps fixes it. The problem happens in these conditions when the engine tries to run at a higher fps than your monitor (62 or 64fps). Vsync does not fix, different video card drivers do not fix.

And like I said, it only happens in 1st person in Skyrim, which is really weird.

EDIT: If you use FRAPS, when the stutter happens, you'll see your framerate jump between 60 and 62, even though you have vsync on.

Now the stutter as shown in the video, still happens sometimes in skyrim. Sometimes it might just be the next grid loading though, but if this was always the case, a stutter remover would not fix loading info from the HDD.

And again, I don't see the effect. Outdoors, I walk/run mostly in 1st person. You should not see the frame rate jump over 60 if Vsync is enabled. Also my Vsync is Skyrim's default which I assume is always on. Can sufferers set Vsync to hard ON in their graphics card's Skyrim Profile? I can do that with the nVidia driver. Is it possible with the ATI driver?

Can sufferers make it clear what graphics adapter they are using so that we might be able to see relationships of microstutter in cards and drivers?

I have no stutter and use nVidia's 296.10 driver.

I see you don't mate, just showing people as some say it doesn't even exist lol. And you're right you shouldn't see your fps jump above 60, but it does. Forcing VSYNC on in CCC or Radeon Pro doesn't fix. And like I said, why only first person? lol it's strange. Obviously doesn't for you, which is good

Okay. I accept that some see the problem and some don't. We are all running the same Skyrim are we not? If it's modded then we are running different Skyrims. Can certain mods be causing this to become more apparent? My Skyrim runs without mods.

Sorry for you guys but I'm trying to help. What's missing from my Skyrim that causes stutter in yours and why? That's the 64 million dollar question.

Could it be something as basic as our Australian mains AC electricity is 50Hz while the US uses 60Hz? There's not a lot we can do about that.

I use the same argument mate, my skyrim is the same. But no, the issue was there day one, without mods. Possibly could be that you know, because if i cap my fps at 60 or under, the issue is gone.

I cap my framerate at the refresh rate of my display (60Hz) and I don't experience this issue. As I recall, Morrowind had this option through an INI setting. I don't remember it being a significant issue with Oblivion, Fallout3 or FNV in my experience playing those games. However, I do recall reading plenty about it and occasionally followed the development of the stutter-remover mods. I did not find them necessary, so this issue is likely not perceived to be the game-breaking problem it is currently being made out to be. If you can effectively fix it now by capping your frame rate, why must BGS divert time away from quest and gameplay fixes to address this?

Because depending on the software you use, using a framerate limiter can cause bugs with grids and LOD not loading properly.

Having DXtory running and displaying my fps (but transparent so I don't have to see the numbers and break immersion) and not actually capping my fps gets rid of most of the stutter, but not all of it.

And I'm not being rude dude, but if Beth can fanny around with new kill cam moves, they have te bloody time to fix bugs that people are having, like this one. I'm not the only sufferer of this issue, that's why I've done my best to try and fix it and help people by making a "fixes" post (in my sig).

been there and still here.

Over a year ago , Anithink posted a thread in the General section of the Skyrim fourum (yes here before the game was final) http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1159912-to-the-devs-fix-the-64-hz60-hz-bug-for-skyrim/page__view__findpost__p__17012929 Even gave links to further INFO for the Devs. The thread had one post and then didn't surface again till September . (Lol @ first response...hehhe)

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1159912-to-the-devs-fix-the-64-hz60-hz-bug-for-skyrim/page__view__findpost__p__18687406 IF I was ever to give someone the benefit of a doubt, it would be Skyranger-1 when it came to the stutter . If he says its because of such and such then ya gotta go with that. After all he fixed it for all the other games.

When running a 560 ti and my FPS varied because the 560 could never hold a solid 60 FPS. Stutter came and went. Tweaks in Nvidia inspector , and a FPS lock, did wonders.

With new video card's that rarely ever drop a single frame. I don't see it at all! Doesn't matter where , even Markarth running around, jumping spin 360's and no more stutter. I am one of the people this makes sick. I had it bad in Oblivion ...fixed it with Skyranger-1's Stutter remover.

Could not believe it when Release day I install a shiny new game , Skyrim , that has a NEW engine, SIGH...new engine same old ass bug. So I went to the Oblivion forum and asked Skyranger-1 if he could help. Even sent him a PM , which he was kind enough to spend time to respond back.

It is still a bug, but we can squash it with enough power...2 580's (3 GB) and Fast ass CPU. Lock FPS at 58 .

Do you use Nvidia inspector to lock your frames?

yes ..along with a nice list of tweaks ....SLI included...I am still using the 290.53 "Skyrim Edition" Drivers...if it ain't broke...