Pretty much, boosts three enchants that no one ever uses. It's a strange enchantment system, what with Damage Stamina getting boosted by Augmented Flame and Fire Enchanter

Ha, that CAN'T be on purpose... somebody oopsied their code at gamesas. Some more.
-Loth

Edit: We should probably make sure that the Guide has a red flag on this perk (Warning: may svck) and on the Weapon spec perks, too. Did we have a list somewhere of all the crappy perks already?

Most of them?

Here's my current minimal perk build; http://skyrimcalculator.com/#24343

Yup.

Now what would you have to pare off of the two-handed tree to get down to 10 TtBAt0?
-Loth

Edit: No more Alchemy? Nice.

4/5 Barbarian, no other Two handed perks and 0 Enchants.

Alchemy isn't worth the perk investment for such a small gain it gives you. 130% smithing seems like a lot until you work out that it only goes up every 17 skill points, especially since we're now trying to trim off the damage and you can just buy 50% pots. Losing the enchant potion only drops about 3-4 points of them.

I'd definately keep the info in the guide for reference, but it's not something I'll be using myself any more.

Edit: I almost feel bad for Cheshyr having to read through all this randomness later

So you're down to 24 perks. But that's with no enchants on your weapon, yes? You spent a bunch of points on Enchanting damage... you should be able to use weapon enchants in your calculation.
-Loth

I don't have weapon enchants working on the spreadsheet yet, but as far as I can tell they're just flat damage increases, so it shouldn't make a big difference. The elemental enchant perks are mainly to boost my Resist enchants. I'll let you know if it changes anything.

Edit: Only need 3/5 Barbarian now

OK, 23 perks.

Not too shabby... you hit all the caps (or close enough, anyway) and can go after the endgame boss with confidence.
-Loth

Female Nord
Elven Armor, Elven Warhammer
Lord Stone, Agent of Mara, Two Alteration perks
Necklace; Resist Frost, Resist Fire
Ring; Resist Shock, Resist Magic
Helm; Waterbreathing
Chest; Fortify Light Armor, Resist Poison
Gloves; Fortify Block, Fortify Two Handed
Shoes; Resist Shock, Resist Fire

DR; 80%
Block; 85%
MR; 82%
Frost; 85%
Fire; 85%
Shock; 85%
Poison; 42%

Approximate TtBAt0; 9

20 perks; http://skyrimcalculator.com/#24358

I know I said no Two-Handed enchant but there's nothing else to put in that slot

I guess a fortify armor enchant on the chestpiece wouldn't make a huge difference in perks needed?
Can't find a resist poison item, and the other options are variations of meh.

Hey guys, here we go.

I have a level 46 character who has not used any of her skill points at all so far.

I want to go one step at a time for figuring all this out.

I definitely want to be able to make both light and heavy armor that can hit the cap, and of all types.

Specifically I want to be able to make the Worn Shrouded Armor (Dark Brotherhood armor - light armor) hit the max cap, but I'd like to be able to do it with other sets as well if I decide to do so later.

Anyway, one step at a time. Thus my first step is confirming that in order to achieve my goal of being able to create armor of any type that can reach the armor cap, I need to place a total of 21 perks in the following skills and amounts:

Enchanting (8) [100]: 5/5 Enchanter, Insightful, Corpus, Extra Effect
Alchemy (7) [100]: 5/5 Alchemist, Physician, Benefactor
Smithing (5): Up to Daedric
Heavy Armor (1): 1/5 Juggernaut

This can't be all I need if I want to be able to do light armor as well, can it?

If I want to be able to do all kinds of armor (including light types), what additional perks will I need?

Also, I had a question about this comment:


My question is, if I decide to use the 21 perks as they're allocated above, I don't ever have to use a single potion to make iron armor sets hit the armor cap? Not once ever?

What about hide armor? It can still hit the cap without worrying about potions?

If I opt to make potions, can I save a few perk points? It's easier for me to make potions than it is for me to make perks.

I think I'm finally wrapping my head around all this, and it's time for me to test it out. I just want to make sure I have the perks placed correctly on paper before I do it on my character. After all, I have a finite amount of perks to use, so I can only have so many errors along the way.

Thanks in advance for any help or confirmations you guys can offer.

Doesn't change the perks needed. Might actually be required depending on how accurate my calculations are, I'm still tweaking armor numbers a bit.

Edit: Forgot to lower my smithing enchants from the lower potion, so need the armor enchant. Added it to my post and replaced resist disease, because who care's about diseases really?

Alaston, the perks needed are all in the OP. You don't need the Alchemy perks, but you might need to spend one or two more perks in the armor trees.

Yeesh... only 20 perks... but you're killing Alduin too easily!
-Loth

Don't make me add Two-Handed perks and one shot him!

LOL The trolls were right! Face it, you're a powergamer that only cares about minmaxing your ass off to break the game! For shame, my lady... FOR SHAME!
-Loth

Nothing says "Fear me mortals" like a 10k power attack to the face with dual maces while only taking 15-20% damage.

Apologies for my absence... I'm in a similar situation.

Tried that one, it′s not possible to improve this set unfortunately. The regular Shrouded set can be improved, but I figure You want to enchant it yourself

Yes, I do. It can't be improved?

Why not? Every other armor in the game can be smithed. Why not this one?

Some unique armor can′t be improved and the worn shrouded set seems to count as such. It just won't appear in the list of improvable items. Might just be a bug, though

Damn, that svcks. I wonder if the thieves guild or nightengale armor shows up.

I apologize for the confusion. I don't have a PC so I can't muck around with things or see numbers, so I have little to go on as a reference point other than taking this thread, following it, and just hoping it all comes out right.

The first post seems to heavily emphasize that alchemy (and its associated perks) is needed in order to get some of the armor sets in the game to hit the cap. I see all the stuff you guys have written, and I'm exceptionally grateful for it. It's just confusing as Hell.

From what I gather in your post, I don't need the alchemy perks in the first post, but I do need to follow the template other than that.

In other words:

I have a level 46 character who hasn't spent any perk points. I have 45 perk points to spend. I want to be able to make any armor in the game, be it heavy or light, hit the armor cap. Let's ignore the weapon choices I want to make for right now. The reason I don't want to include that is because while I know I will be primarily a bow user, I'm not sure if I'm going one-hand, two-handed, or dual wield yet. So let's just focus on what I know I will need, which is the ability to improve every type of armor in the game such that it can hit the cap.

In order to accomplish this, I should place:

8 points in Enchanting.
- 5 in Enchanter
- 1 in Insightful Enchanter
- 1 in Corpus Enchanter
- 1 in Extra Effect

5 points in Smithing
- 1 in Steel Smithing
- 1 in Dwarven Smithing
- 1 in Orcish Smithing
- 1 in Ebony Smithing
- 1 in Daedric Smithing

1 Point in Heavy Armor
- 1 point in Juggernaut

And that's it? 14 perks? If I don't need alchemy, and this allows me to improve every armor in the game to hit the cap, it only takes 14 perks? I don't see any light armor in that template at all. Am I misunderstanding something? Is it not needed?

This is why I continue to be confused, and thus ask redundant questions. I see the template on the first post. That template however, lists alchemy as a must and says I'll need to be able to use it. It also doesn't have light armor on there, which I want to be able to do.

I know you guys are tired of me asking this same question - probably about as tired as I am of me asking this same question. Part of the reason it keeps getting asked is because either I don't understand the answer, or the answer hasn't actually been given. Perhaps both.

If you reply to me saying that "Yes, these 14 perks are all you will ever need in order to take either Iron or fur armor, or any other armor, up to the cap" then I'll accept your answer and run with it. From what I understand at this stage though, something's not right about this plan we've laid out together.

Alaston:


The above chart reads as follow: (Armor Type): (# of perks necessary to cap)/ (actual armor value with listed perks) | (Perks necessary to hit cap)

It assumes you've got 100 Alchemy Skill and spent 7 perk points in Alchemy. We've since concluded that Alchemy doesn't provide much bang for your perk buck, so we're recommending dropping it. However, that will require you to put about 1-2 more perk points in each Armor tree in order to reach the cap.

As you'll note, capping Leather, Iron, and Fur requires a significantly larger perk investment than any other type of armor. If you're hellbent on capping absolutely every armor set, we'll need to consult Domilasa's spread sheet to see if it's even possible.
However, if you can live without being able to cap those three types of armor, the perk requirements become much more reasonable. Without Alchemy, you should be able to create a capped set of all Heavy Armor sets (except Iron) with the following perk investment: 5 in Smithing (Steel, Dwarven, Orcish, Ebony, Daedric), 3 in Heavy Armor (2/5 Juggernaut, Well Fitted) and 8 in Enchanting (5/5 Enchanter, Insightful Enchanter, Corpus Enchanter, Extra Effect). To do the same for Light Armors (except Fur and Leather) requires the following: a further 4 in Smithing (Elven, Advanced Armors, Glass Dragon Smithing), and 3 in Light Armor (1/5 Agile Defender, Custom Fit, Matching Set.)

That's 23 perk points total to be able to craft a capped set of every armor type except Fur, Leather, and Iron.

Capping Iron would require an extra 3 in Juggernaut (thereby filling it out at 5/5). Capping Leather and Fur, if possible, would require a lot more points in Light Armor; probably filling out Agile Defender at 5/5, as well as the recommended 7 in Alchemy.

Thank you for a very thorough explanation. Let me chew on that a while and see which road I want to head down. There are some choices to be made it appears. It's really not worth it to me to be able to craft stuff I probably won't ever even use for that many extra points.

Maybe I'll just run with a light armor (the better ones - not hide, fur or leather). My understanding is that Elven is the best pound for pound light armor. Let me think about this a bit. Thank you for the thorough explanation.

If I bailed on heavy armors completely, that would cut out 4 more perk points, bringing me back down to 19 perks for the ability to make Elven, Scaled, Elven Gilded (whatever that is), Glass, and Dragonscale armor that all hit the cap, right?

Nightingale Sword received At or after level 45 is non-upgradable. I've had no trouble upgrading the other Nightingale pieces, regardless of when I received them.