Ah well, dual power attacking for 204 damage isn't all that bad

Total thwacks

How does 68 unarmed damage per swing get to 204 for a standing power attack?



Thwack = Standing Power Attack? =P

Well a dual power attack is technically 3 hits. Plus, Unarmed benefits from the duel wield perks in the One-Handed tree (including +50% power attack damage).

Ooh, I didn't think to check those. Back to damage testing!

Yes

Edit: The power attack perks do not affect the damage
Sneak perks don't either

So Dual Flurry and Dual Savagery apply to Unarmed. What about Armsman, Fighting Stance, and Savage Strike?

Edit: Forgot to mention... your spreadsheet is an amazing piece of work, Domilasa. You have my undying admiration and gratitude.

Those three don't because for some reason Unarmed is not considered "One-Handed" nor is it considered "Two-Handed". It gets the duel-wield perks simply because they are "weapons" that are able to be duel wielded. Honestly Unarmed feels half developed, like they didn't know if it should be viable or not and then just kind of forgot about it so it has all these weird rules dictating it.

Just tested it and none of the perks apply. Not the power attack, not one handed, not the sneak critical multipliers.
The absolute max damage you can do unarmed is a 408 sneak critical power attack, 204 Dual power attack, 136 normal power attack or 68 on a normal hit.

That my understanding as well prior to Fappy's very misleading post.

But thanks for the confirmation.

Wait, so the Dual Perks don't apply? I am confused now lol.

I tested it out and I am pretty damn sure there is a notable difference in attack speed with "Dual Flurry".

Haven't tested "Dual Savagery" myself, but the wiki says it works D:

Might have been changed but as of my testing (1.3) none of the perks have any effect

I'm on 1.1 so hopefully 1.3 doesn't make me lose out on 2 perks I spent. :/

Thanks to Dom, we can also fill in the guide on Bashing...
(paraphrased from previous testing)
Bashing is affected by: Blocking skill (slight affect, difference of 0 to 100 Block was 2 pts. of damage unperked), Shield quality (also slight affect, difference of hide and glass shields was only 1 pt of damage unperked), the Power Bash perk (moderate affect, about 7 pts. of damage) and the Deadly Bash perk (largest affect, over 30 pts difference from base damage)

What I think we're missing in terms of definitive numbers is damage from bashing with weapons... given that blocking with weapons is the same across the board regardless of weapon type, it may end up being the same for all weapons bashing. We just don't know for sure yet. Having this info may make a difference on whether or not it's worth dropping perk points into bashing -- my money is on "probably not".

-Loth

Also, just a note. I totally failed my math before when doing blocking with weapons. I wrote that weapons block 40%, they actually block 60% and I forgot to swap the numbers.

So weapons base Block is 60% at 100 Skill? That's higher than some Shields, no? And so much for needing a Fortify Block enchant to reach the cap.

Wait... so you hit the blocking cap with weapon blocking by dropping a single perk point into Shield Wall (or use one enchant slot) with a Block skill of 100? Good Lord... guess the block mechanism went a little overboard with having 5 perk levels of upgrades!

-Loth

Edit: Ha, I read Whiskey's mind again.

Does making the super bow still work after the patch. I have read all the threads and didnt see an answer. im on ps3

Great minds think alike.

I should make my signature "In before Loth."

My original math was correct, you still need a 40% enchant or 4 perks to cap. They seem to be multiplicative, not addative. 60 * 1.4 = 84, which was what I was getting in my first set of tests. But I'm still testing so bear with me if I make a million corrections

Dude, you type fast... LOL, I can't compete.

-Loth

Edit: OK, 4 perks seems more reasonable now, but one point in Shield Wall seems like plenty, anyway... it's not like a player would want to rely solely on Block for defense mitigation -- unless you are going melee warrior armorless a la Samurai duelist style. Waitaminute... that might be bad-ass to play -- although quite dangerous, of course. You'd pretty much NEED Quick Reflexes perk ASAP, and want to get Block Runner pretty quick, too. I'll probably try it when I'm feeling suicidal one day.

Here's my numbers with blocking using two handed weapons;

550
390.4 = (159.6)
457.43 = (92.57) Block 0 (42%)
486.16 = (63.84) Block 100 (60%)
495.74 = (54.26) 1/5 (66%)
505.31 = (44.69) 2/5 (72%)
514.89 = (35.11) 3/5 (78%)
524.46 = (25.54) 4/5 (84%)
526.06 = (23.94) 5/5 (85%)

Either the perks lie, or they just work differently if not using a shield as each one is improving my block by 10%

I'll be testing shields next to see how they work with the perks and what their base blocks are.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see that the perks' descriptions are different than the actual in-game effects.

-Loth

Archers would make you cry.


Very strange, since the tooltip says 1/5 Shield Wall grants +20% Block. I wonder if the Fortify Block enchants are similarly misleading.

Numbers with an Iron Shield

550
399.78 = (150.22)
474.59 = (75.41) 0 (49.8%)
482.07 = (67.93) 1/5 (54.78%) +4.98 (10%)

485.41 = (66.59) 100 (55.67%)
493.97 = (56.03) 1/5 (62.7%) +7.03 (12.63%)
502.53 = (47.47) 2/5 (68.4%) +5.7 (10.24%)
511.09 = (38.91) 3/5 (74.1%) +5.7 (10.24%)
519.66 = (30.34) 4/5 (79.8%) +5.7 (10.24%)
527.47 = (22.53) 5/5 (85%) capped

Total improvement from perks; 53.59% (ignoring cap)

Try and figure that one out

You got THAT right... you'd have to dodge and weave like a maniac. Assuming the duelist was a greatsword wielder, you wouldn't get anything from the arrow deflection perk. I could see where a lot of bandit encounters would involve ignoring the melee bandits and focusing on taking down the archers first, all the while sidestepping back and forth while running like a fool. Yeah... suicidal.

Rolling new char now... think of all the time I'll save not worrying about armor!
-Loth

Daedric Shield numbers

550
402.08 = (147.92)
479.30 = (70.7) 0 (52.2%)
487.02 = (62.98) 0 + 1/5 (57.42%) +5.22 (10%)

495.27 = (54.73) 100 (63%)
504.59 = (45.41) 1 (69.3%) +6.3 (10%)
513.91 = (36.09) 2 (75.6%) +6.3 (10%)
523.23 = (26.77) 3 (81.9%) +6.3 (10%)
527.81 = (22.19) 4 (85%) capped
527.81 = (22.19) 5 (85%) capped

These make more sense. I think the iron shield just has some weird rounding issues or something, but the perks definately lie