The upside is that you can take part in planning a proper, more thorough asskicking of the Thalmor with the resources of the full Empire.

The downside is that you'll have to suffer Thalmor roving about Skyrim just a little longer.

Though, that last point may not be a downside if you sate your draconic need to dominate on them...



Someone who understands.


On the contrary... The very existence of the Dragonborn is a divine refutation of the Thalmor's overall plans of unmaking reality. Alduin is but the first existential threat you will be dealing with in the course of the DLCs, I reckon.

It doesn't matter which route you take in regards to the Thalmor. They're going to lose no matter what.

A pro of siding with the Imperials is that you can find Ulfric and his Dog in Sovngarde.

I can already find them in Windhelm any time I like,

[img]http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/4074/meekoulfric3.jpg[/img]

besides which getting to and from Sovngarde is a real PITA. Windhelm is a much easier commute.

Can be considered a con, as Maven is not a very nice lady in the least.

Yeah I think the biggest con is that Riften gets even more corrupt and nasty with Maven in charge. I hate her and would love to piss on her decapitated corpse. But I can't and it frustrates me to no end. They should make a couple quests about Riften for the really good characters.

I joined the stormcloakes because i even hated the imperials in oblivion and kinda carried a grudge from them constantly running after me for stupid little crimes

the same dossier also said he wont communicate with them and is extremely uncooperative and he seems to hate the thalmor alot. The legion are weak , all cicero's journals tell that chorral is in a turf war between two skooma dealers and bravil was ransacked by bandits , also there is a journal that is in the battle-born manor that is signed by general tullius to kidnap one of the gray-manes , allow the thalmor to torture him for information while everyone pretended he was dead , what sort of empire allows that ? , i realise there is a whole "better in the long run" attitude but during the cease fire arrangement in the main quest if you didnt pick a side , the empire can't discuss their war with the stormcloaks alone , the thalmor have to be there while they make their decision so they can make it for them , ulfric and galmar refuse to negotiate until they leave and force them out , the empire may be stronger but being strong means jack when your not willing to fight , the stormcloaks if they win get straight to defending against the suspected thalmor attack , they know what the thalmor are doing but they also know the empire is just gonna continue to twiddle their thumbs and allow the thalmor to dictate their decisions , the thalmor are not so high and mighty either , they are not incredibly strong , they had to call a truce as well as the empire in the great war and they started the war on the empire with a surprise attack , the empire were caught off guard , sure that promotes the strength of the empire but they are trying to rebuild and its clear from cicero's journals they are failing. They are just using the empire to fight another war while they rebuild their army so they can weaken both skyrim and the empire and sweep in and claim both easily and then probably turn their attention to hammerfell.

Most importantly the thalmor dossiers states that both a stormcloak or empire victory is to be avoided [Oldenemor also says the truce is only until they are strong enough to finish off the empire]. This backs up the point they want to use one to wear down the other and when they are both weak , sweep in and take em all. Either way , best option is to pick a side and finish the war ASAP .

stormcloaks take the fight to the thalmor and don't give them a chance to strengthen their army whereas the empire would be stronger and more able to fight the thalmor and push them back but i dunno if they have the balls anymore which Ulfric does. So both choices are best to fight the thalmor just once you do it ASAP , just comes down to who you think has the brains to beat them and personally I think Galmar is a great tactician so I would side with stormcloaks .


This was all in relation to the quote , I know it had nothing to do with OP

It doesn't matter if the Empire or the Stormcloaks fight the Thalmor, because either way they have the Dovahkiin and are going to win.

I'm not too sure to be honest, i'm wondering if Bethesda won't keep the thalmor around for the next game. I could be wrong, but it would be interesting, since we can;t really say we have seen much of them. It would certainly be a waste to truly get rid of them so quickly.

I reckon an equally strong enemy Empire would be good for the story in future games. Tamriel always felt a little bit too stable under the Septim Empire. Months down the line, I find I like the creeping dread that a crumbling Empire and powerful foes beyond the PCs reach that the Dominion adds. At frst it unnerved me, made me not sure if I liked where thinsg were going, but that was just the old 'safe' Tamriel I was used to being a thing of the past. Even with Dagoth Ur or Mehrunes Dagon, there was always some small feeling of security in seeing a Legion soldier. Now, Legion soldiers are remnants, or even enemies. And death squads walk the land.

No matter how many agents and soldiers you kill, there is an entire province of them, and two vassel provinces with the best archers and best thieves in all Tamriel to back up the battle mages.

Obviously there were Stormcloaks there. When you go into the fort you spend 5-10 minutes killing them. But Ulfric would have been dead before they could save him, if not by the headsman then by an arrow or sword.

The Stormcloaks fight the worship of Talos, who they believe to be a Nord.

I can't take them seriously for this. Talos=Tiber+Zurian+Ysmir

Tiber= Hjalti

Hjalti=Breton.

Imperials allowed for a unified Skyrim to fight the Aldmeri Dominion. NOT the Thalmor. Thalmor are just the agents of the Dominion.

Does Talos care more about the Nords worshipping him or being a part of the Empire that was his life's work?

This for me too. I've sided with the Imperials with plenty of characters and Thalmor numbers have never increased.

Not true actually Beth wrote the background that there wouldn't be things like Stormcloak victory is good for em.
I read that Thalmor want Ulfric's stormcloaks to cause chaos but not win completely

"Hjalti" sounds more like a Nordic name than a Breton name. Add on the sobriquet "Early-Beard" and it sounds even more like one. One doesn't have to be born in Skyrim to be a nord. The only thing it states is that he was a "warrior youth from High Rock". Just like how the current dragonborn is a person from Cyrodiil but could be any of the ten sapient mortal races.

Also, The Arcturian Heresy is just that: heresy. Orthodoxy says he was Talos of Atmora first. That's why all the nords think he's even more nordy than them (on account of being "born in Atmora").

"Early-Beard"... Did puberty hit little Hjalti early?

The Thalmor don't want either side to win. We don't know which side they would prefer to have win either.

Neither. If the 'Cloaks win, the Thalmor have a hostile nation out there now that is freely worshipping Talos that they have to deal with. If the Imperials win, the Legion can get right back to re-arming. And in either case, there is now a Dragonborn against them; a walkin Divine Intervention whose very existence is a rebuke to their plans.

That's why the Thalmor inflamed the Stormcloaks in the first place: to impede the Legion's re-arming. The Thalmor know that the races of men can recuperate their population much more quickly than elves can after a cataclysmic war. They were hoping that the Stormcloak rebellion would be a slow bleed-out.

The rank and file Stormcloak's agitations are legitimate, however Ulfric's opportunist methodology for manipulating that agitation to raise his status is not. I think the majority of Nords understand this, and why the Empire has a lot more Nords in its ranks fighting Ulfric than Ulfric could raise against the Empire. More holds are loyal to the Empire than Ulfric, and the holds that are loyal, are also more populated, especially if guilds are taken out of the count.
We have a good example of the Dominion's strategy in action with their invasion of Hammerfell. the Redgaurds had refused to give their land to the Dominion and elected to continue fighting to defend what was theirs, however due to Aldmei cowardly (if brilliant) scheming they had been forced to stand alone without the Empire to help. Despite the odds, they managed to come out victorious and brought even more agitation to the Imperials who had been against the Thalmor terms for peace. If Ulfric is allowed to succeed in breaking skyrim away from the Empire, the Dominion would the inevitable reasoning that the treaty was breached and swoop in for the kill. Skyrim would be standing alone against a much more powerful opponent and there wouldn't be ditty square the Empire could do at that point.

The Empire on the other hand had 30 years to recover, they should have renounced the Thalmor peace terms by this time and stood ready to defend against the Dominion once again. The Empire's hesitation to act upon what every citizen knows to be right may be irritating, but Ulfric is a short sighted opportunist who uses the blood of his fellow Nords to become high King.

Maven was already incharge of Riften at least as Jarl she's no longer the hidden shadow behind the throne and all blame can fall directly on her.

I think he must see it the way I do; a situation that no one wants to be in. The Empire very begrudgingly illlegalized Talos worship, and only after a year of war that saw the Imperial homeland burning from the fires feed by the Human fat from the thousands massacred in the occupied Imperial province, not to mention the sacking of the capital city. If they where alright with illlegalizing Talos worship they would have accepted the original Aldmeri demands and spared the ravashing of the most important province in the Empire in terms of wealth and power. They fought the Dominion bitterly, but in the end their legions wasn't enough and they had been forced to capitulate and given the the outrageous Almeri demands out of fear of losing everything. The Empire was deploying the "Live to fight another day" mentality, the best of the two ugly choices. I don't think any other province in the Empire felt so humiliated or had been so devestated by the war. Ironic indeed to see Ulfric claim to be honoring Talos by trying to destroy his very legacy as it already lays bloodied on the floor.

Not sure of mentioned, but:

They're corrupt bastards. A shell of their former glory, fighting only to protect their own interests, not Skyrim. They don't care about us and they'd sell us out as quickly as they did Hammerfell if it would save their own Imperial backsides.

Skyrim and Hammerfell have a common enemy, the AD. Hammerfell fought them off alone, imagine what a united Skyrim and Hammerfell war machine could do. Think of the superior naval power, the fighting prowess, we could defeat the AD navy and surround Summerset Isle, then invade and smash the AD once and for all, then turn our attentions to the Empire, rid the world of that threat for good.

People fight better when they have a true cause, Nords fighting for Skyrim and it's freedom will have more fire in the belly, same with Redguards and Hammerfell.