You will get a taste of Ulfric Stormcloaks wrath

I find it neat folks ( includiing me) get so worked up about this and have such strong opinions. I like that Bethesda set things up that the info in the game can give such dissenting opinions and strong reactions.

You people do realize that you meet Talos in Morrowind and he even tells you that the Empire is crumbling and that its days are numbered. This was the Septim Empire yet he felt it should crumble. The Mede Empire isn't Talos' empire. Talos would more likely side with the Stormcloaks as gods in TES are powered by worship so legal worship in Stormcloak Skyrim would strengthen him and thus help him maintain the world which the Thalmor don't want.

In addition, one of the legates says that the Legion is so spread thin that almost all the Imperial soldiers you see in Skyrim are locals which explains why nearly all the Imperial Legion in Skyrim is Nords. If the Legion is so spread thin, what does that tell you about how they prepare.

Another pro of Stormcloaks: Talos worship isn't banned so I can get Blessing of Talos much easier.

Strange, i would be banging my head on the keyboard if i started a new game for nothing.

And about Maven; i would rather she be jarl than that moron of a Laila Law Giver (or whatever, the previous Jarl of Riften). She's so easily manipulated by her , uh, was it stewardess? (not been playing skyrim for 5 months doesnt help)
Her high elf personal assistant. Yes. Being manipulated like a helpless wooden puppet.

*claps*



Agreed. I will do the Legion with one of my characters, but I'm not looking forward to the part you mention. I suspect all my other characters will end up on Ulfric's side.

Which character is this you are both talking about ?

Ulfric Stormcloak

Oh right. I didn't think he was one of the most interesting characters to have appeared in TES. I admired his views but I didn't really think he was anything special.

Well, he have a long backstory, deep political beliefs and motivation and he is the center of my favorite comflict in TES lore, the Skyrim Civil War.

I think he's really well-made, at least compared with most of the other NPCs. He has a real backstory, is a character with depths, goals, past traumas and good and bad sides, and even a sense of humor. I get the feeling that he has a personality (which is more than I can say about some other characters in the game). And considering the number of threads about him, and how the opinions on him seem to range from "uttermost evil" to "the savior", I would say, yeah, he's pretty interesting.

Agreed. And speaking for myself, the fact that he's the only NPC out in the world who can and does Shout (aside from dragons and draugr) creates a natural affinity. He understands a part of the Dovahkiin's experience that is simply a mystery to everyone else but the Greybeards.

I was a little disappointed when I FUSed him just to see what he would say, though. He only grunted and went back to his war-talk. Yrsarald Thrice Pierced came marching, though, and did the "I'm asking you to stop shouting"-speech... And then I left the palace, made a FUS at Rolff Greyskin-Hater and got a bounty... Ah well... (That was right after I discovered that Battle for Whiterun seems to be the point after which you're welcome to ALL the features of the Palace of the Kings, btw. Earlier than I expected, actually.)

Wait a minute you mean I could have been sleeping with Ulfric SINCE WHITERUN?

Lol, serves me right for not snooping around enough early on.

Ooo yes.

My character hasn't taken advantage of the situation, though. She's still in denial, trying to convince herself she's not falling in love with the boss. But she thought he looked at her in a... certain way when she was there (and it had nothing to do with the shouting, I reloaded that one, Rolff isn't worth a bounty.)

i've given up on that entirely, these days I just go ahead and fall for him right in Helgen, gag and all.


I guess you could say he had me at "MMMMMMPH!!"

It's funny, because that is part of the thing that creates a natural dislike and distrust of him.

For me its all about fighting oppression. You know, dismantling the apparatus of the imperialist state. I mean, what have they ever given us in return?

The aqueduct.

Oh yeah, yeah they gave us that. Yeah. That's true.

And the sanitation!

Oh yes... sanitation, Reg, you remember what the city used to be like.

All right, I'll grant you that the aqueduct and the sanitation are two things that the Imperials have done...

And the roads...

Well yes obviously the roads... the roads go without saying. But apart from the aqueduct, the sanitation and the roads...

Irrigation... Medicine... Education... Health...

Yes... all right, fair enough...

And the wine...

Oh yes! True!

Yeah. That's something we'd really miss if the Imperials left, Reg.

Public baths!

And it's safe to walk in the streets at night now.

Yes, they certainly know how to keep order... Let's face it, they're the only ones who could in a place like this.

All right... all right... but apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have the Imperials done for us?

Epic qoute from a classic movie. xD

*Raises hand*

Brought peace?

The Thalmor death squads speak otherwise...

When did they do that?

Everyone fought each other same as if the empire wasn't around.



Also I find Sir Robin highly appropriate for the imperial Soldier stance. They (bravely) run away. Now if only the empire actually provided something new to Skyrim. After all there haven't really been many technological advances in TES history.

There are an awful lot of spoilers in this thread to be on the general side.

What aqueduct? I do not see a single aqueduct in Skyrim.

Are you claiming that all those poo buckets laying around came from Cyrodiil? After all, us backwards Nords are too stupid to make a bucket right? Is that what you are trying to say?

The roads? Those little two foot wide tracks of stones set in the ground? Hmm, quite an engineering feat. Since we Nords are too stupid to line rocks up in the dirt, I will have to give this one to you brilliant Imperials.

I have not seen a single irrigation ditch in Skyrim. Never found a hospital. Though there are plenty of apothecaries run by Nords, and all the races other than Imperials. I have not seen a school either? Health? I don't see any Imperials casting Healing Hands on anyone.

Wine! What milk-drinker can stomach such swill! A Nord drinks mead! Get out of here with that putrid bilge!


You mean the Sea of Ghosts? Sure, I jump in everytime I want a bath. You mean the Empire created that? It is not like I have seen a single Imperial bathtub anywhere in Skyrim.

Safe? Is that what you call it when roving bands of stinking elves haul people off to be tortured because they worship Mighty Talos? Or is that when innocent travelers are taken to the block by the Empire to be decapitated, without evidence or trial? You sir, have a strange idea of safe!


Well lets see. They bleed Skyrim dry with its crushing taxes, take the silver from its mines, send her sons and daughters to die in defense of Cyrodiil, then turn around and not only surrender to the enemy after the Nordic legions gained the victory, but also collaborate with the enemy as well. They try to destroy Mighty Talos, the founder of the Septim Empire, and the only force preventing the Thalmor from unmaking the world itself and killing everyone in existence. They help the Thalmor kidnap true Nords like Thorald Greymane in order to torture him, and then try to keep it a secret. They attempt to murder innocent people who travel the roads, offering no trial, and requiring no evidence of any wrongdoing before lopping their heads off with an axe. What has the Empire brought Skyrim? Murder, torture, betrayal, dishonor, just for starters. The Empire is a plague, and the Stormcloaks are the cure.

You're looking at one of the few exceptions, and even those are brought about by some pretty extreme circumstances. The world was a fairly peaceful place when the Empire was in full swing, yet as soon as it fragmented all hell broke lose. Rival Empires formed, provinces went to war with each other, it was a return to the chaos of the 2nd age. The Empire brought order to the chaos and setup as fair as system that was as fair as possible to everyone. The proof of its acceptance is that the Empire has a lot more Nords backing it than Ulfric- despite all that had happened.

Show us this proof. Give us a census of the Nords who support the Empire vs. those who do not.