An American 180 can chew through a bulletproof vest after a few of seconds of fire. A person would either need amazing aim on moving targets, or the target would have to stay still for that to happen, but when you get hit by hundreds of .22 rounds, the deadly factor multiplies exponentially.

Pretty much what I would have said. Sure, it's not a great round in some respects. It's not like I'm giving you a Lesnar-Style KO with a couple shots, but I'm throwing about 15-30+ per second at you. You might as well be holding up a piece of paper to your chest.

Why Thank you again Mr Sawyer!

Um no. I would have to disagree, the .22 round is a varmit round and it would NEVER pierce body armor even if you held it in one area and kept shooting it. I would give a slim possibility to a .22 magnum round as doing it but not a .22 S-L-LR type of round. They are not armor piercing rounds nor do they have enough muzzle velocity to be effective at anything over 100 yards away.

Muzzle velocity of a .22 LR at 40 grains on the bullet is just 1050 feet/second muzzle velocity. A military .223 round depending on the grain of the bullet (higher grain lower velocity) ranges from 3241 feet second to 2750 feet/second. Now the bullet that I use alot the 7.62x54R (bigger than the AK-47 uses which uses the 7.62x39) in the civilian light ball setup is 2785 feet/second and the civilian heavy ball 2838 feet/second. The military armor piercing round I have which is a steel core 7.62x54R is easily over 3000 feet/second and its a heavy ball (200 Grain) bullet with more grains worth of powder packed into the powder chamber.

But here see for yourself though to the far right is a .22 LR and to the left of that is the .223 round and to the left of that is the AK-47 round 7.62x39 which is shorter than mine and has less powder.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/Rifle_cartridge_comparison.jpg




Have you ever shot guns before in real life? Cause honestly a .22 even out of a full auto rifle has a 99.9% chance to bounce off body armor. Ballistics armor cops wear is designed to stop a 9mm pistol round at the very least which is a .38 caliber bullet.

The 9mm pistol I have which uses the 9x18 Makarov round at 92 grains (higher projectile weight than the .22 LR at 40 grains) with a muzzle velocity of 1033 feet/second compared to the ligher .22 at 1050 feet/second. Yes the velocity for the .22 is slightly higher than the .38 (9mm) but because of the heavier round it provides more kinetic energy than a lighter round. So if a vest from the police force can stop a 9mm police round you can bet your ass a .22 would have a very hard time of penetrating the armor. I would probably say it would never happen but I would have to say 99.9% because theres always that 1% fluke where the round hits just right. The military body armor you sure as hell wouldnt penetrate that with a .22 especially on full auto. Those vests we are using in the middle east over there are designed to stop an AK-47 round which has more kinetic energy at longer distances than the .223 because its a heavier projectile than the .223.

Now if both if you want to belive a .22 round being shot full auto can shread body armor thats your choice to but I would have to respectfully disagree. Oh yea I also need to throw this out a full auto .22 wont be as accurate as a .22 semi auto rifle. You would effectively be "spraying and praying" because the rounds wont all travel straight. Ive seen it before at a class III shooting even and got to shoot a guys modified .22 LR rifle to be full auto and I have to say yes it was fun to shoot but those tracer rounds in the magazine were flying all over the place.

Anyways there is a specific requirement for a projectile to pierce armor and the most important thing that allows a projectile to pierce plate armor is the core. .22`s are all soft lead core which would smack the plate armor with a high PING and thats it. Now my steel core 7.62x54R would hit plate armor with a deep PING/THUD sound and punch through leaving a hole 0.35 - 0.40" in diameter.



Now back onto the subject though the .22 light machinegun in game I would say is going to be pretty useless. I know I would laugh and then uninstall the game if the round was able to punch through body armor. I would really laugh and never buy another game in this series if the .22 can punch through power armor.

Actually, armor in the Fallout series isn't bullet-proof for any caliber. They are more like bullet-resistant. I haven't tried, but it would be possible to kill and Enclave soldier with the Chinese Pistol in Fallout 3. Just remember that it's a game, not a simulator. I say that it will become pretty useless after you get hold of the more powerful full-auto guns. What it does have is a large magazine, and I believe it's the same size as the LMG's magazine.

Sawyer, I noticed you have commented on every single question in this thread except "Will there be a tommy gun/Thompson?"

Any chance your hiding that on purpose? (If you don't answer, I'm considering it a yes.)

Edit: It would be a crime to have a M1 Garand without a Thompson.

It might be.

Ha! That kid got pwnd.

Correct, leather armor isnt really bullet proof just bullet resistant against lighter calibers/loads. Metal armor is the same way it will take larger rounds to penetrate the metal and the power armor would require even larger rounds to really do damage.

So basically it comes back to bullet resistant or bullet proof are pretty close to the same thing. The .22 would probably pierce the leather armor but would require alot of shots to take a person down to the torso area. The .22 would be a whole lot less effective against metal armor maybe even useless and when shot at power armor it should just richochet off with a PING. So yes the .22 would be somewhat usefull against un armored humans and some animals if you shoot them enough. But as far as penetrating "armor" I would have to say it better have a hard time penetrating the metal armor and have zero chance of penetrating powerarmor. The leather armor I would expect to see it penetrate that considering leather is nothing but animal skin.

Correct it is a game but if scroll up to the top of the forums and to the left it says "America's First Choice in Post Nuclear Simulation" so correct its a game but if the game banner is saying Simulation then I would be inclined to belive its a fictional simulation (which a simulation is doing something you would in real life in this case you are surviving in a post nuclear world in an alternative time line) which I personally think should be accurate when it comes to projectile weaponry.

I dont expect all to agree and thats their choice but I just hope the .22 would be pretty useless because it is in real life.

That's why you gotta shoot'em in the head!!!



I miss my body armor now.

lol Yep I always aim for the head when I play in game, and if I had to in real life I would aim for the head as well. Its not smart to just wing someone because they will lie and turn it around on you that you shot them for no reason.

Aside from that a .22 round placed through the eye could be effective at close enough range.

Look online I got my body armor off the web from a military surplus site years ago. Just dont expect to get the modern stuff like dragon skin but the plate armor vests are pretty good against most small rounds.

...You do realize what body armor is composed of, right? Virtually all ballistics vests/body armors are composed of an incredibly strong fabric called Kevlar (some have plating such as ceramics though). Layers of Kevlar are packed on top of one another inside of the vest. As a bullet travels it tears through sheets of Kevlar, each sheet reducing the speed drastically until the bullet cannot enter any further into the vest, and only the force can continue to travel. If another shot is fired it may also be stopped if it's far enough away from the previous tear site, but several well placed rounds (with a 9mm bullet in this case since you're referring to the standard issue for police) will be able to tear through the vest.

Kevlar vests aren't meant to make someone invincible, it's supposed to stop a bullet or a few in the case of a firefight from hitting any vital organs. More bullets = more tears in the layers of Kevlar = less protection from the jacket. When you start getting 30+ rounds per second, even the .22s will tear through the body armor.

Will it be easy? No. The person would either have to stay still or the shooter would have to have incredible aim, but saying that it wouldn't penetrate is ludicrous.

It also depends on which class of body armor we're talking about. The American 180 might not work on Type III or Type IV ballistics vest, but it could chew through a Type I or Type II vest (which is the standard issue for police).

Anyways though I'm sure with Damage Threshold the American 180 won't be powerful against certain armors. I would definitely expect them to bounce off of Power Armor. =P

I'm fairly sure that, being full-auto AND silenced, its main purpose will be sending 30 or so .22 bullets into the central nervous system of an unarmored foe, from behind, at close range. In a matter of seconds.

.22 and its Long Rifle brother have their uses but its basically useless against bigger then varmint sized game and are best used for target practice and the especially fun plinking side of shooting.

I'm looking forward to armor actually some true effects in New Vegas, I love that Power Armor will actually be something thats just around and when you have you'll probably be damn near invincible because of its armoring effects.

Yeah, you should be able to target the eyes or something? (Like a perk gives you the ability to or something? Then I can just SHOOT'EM IN THE HEAD!!!

And I don't need body armor anymore, unless for some reason I was 50 Cent (:P) I left mine when I returned from the Land of Sand Dunes and Camel Spiders. I just remember liking to wear it on really hot day when there wasn't anything happening and we'd sit around the helipads.

Thats what I didnt like with FO3, you couldnt target smaller areas of the body. Even with the melee weapons you couldnt target a specific body. God knows how many times I wanted to swing the baseball bat at someones head only to swing up into their body. I really hope they throw in smaller target areas such as maybe the shoulder to wing them so you can question them, eye shot for those that are heavily armored with a combat helmet and your a low level character with a weak powered weapon.

There really is no need for body armor peroid but I have it as a last resort type of thing. If the [censored] ever hit the fan I would atleast be prepaired for survival if need be. Otherwise it looks great hanging in the game room with my weapon collection around it.

It looks almost exactly like a more compact version of the russian DP-28, which is really, really, old. Could be totally wrong but it's a pretty distinct and unmistakable look.

REPEAT-J.E. SAWYER HIMSELF ALREADY TOLD US THAT IT WAS A SILENCED, FULLY AUTOMATIC .22 SUB-MACHINE GUN.

It's an American 180 SMG. The DP-28 is a LMG and it fires a 7.62mm round, not a .22

Yeah I don't know why people keep saying its DP-28, its been stated many, many times its as stated above an automatic .22 LR Sub-Machine Gun by the name of American-180.

Here's a link to it the American-180 page on Modern Firearms:
http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg62-e.htm

Does anyone know if we can shoot for the eyes like the Original fallouts? If we can then .22 will be a great weapon for hardcoe mode. Can carry alot of ammo with little weight. .22 to the eye will take down anyone. Great way to take down powerful enemies in the other fallout's shoot out their eyes.

Maybe that would be a perk/trait? Gives you the ability to target eyes, groin, ect.

I don't like the fingers sticking up. Makes using it weird. O.o Overall its not bad, but I like the original one better.

Maybe it could be like the originals, where it was just a normal part of targeting part of an enemy as opposed to targeting the enemy "overall."

Wasn't the most credible part, was it?

I mean, what are the odds of successfully hitting someone's eye on purpose? With most modern weapons, you'd find it hard enough to hit someone's head if you're not trained in the use of them, let alone the eyes.