ok your right, new clarification "but without the interesting characrters".

The forum has a spoilers tag? Will try adding that... I didn't see it in the editor so I wasn't sure if it worked. Edit: Okay, fixed it. I really apologize for not doing it correctly before...

svcks to be you. For me, this is the Holy Grail of RPGs. Call me a really devoted fan if you like, but I love this game. 146 hours on one character and I still havent done everything.

While I don't think Skyrim is perfect, I don't think the graphics are bad at all. Can you point me to other multi-platform games that have better graphics than this? Game looks pretty damn good for me at maxed out settings on my PC.

And besides, even if other games may have technologically superior/more crisp, even more realistic graphics, they don't hold a candle to Skyrim in terms of artistry. (Gritty looking dystopian metropolis is not appealing to look at)

Crysis 2, Crysis 1, Battlefield 3... And I know, they're not "open world", but it's because of the gameplay style, not because the game engines can't do that.

And well, I said in the first post that the artistry I think is fine. My main complaint is about gameplay mechanics...

I think Oblivion wass overall a better game

Because of the crappy engine and all-pervasive level scaling i cannot agree. Otherwise i would.

Umodded Skyrim is much better to play than unmodded Oblivion.

I think daaskapital is right.

What do you mean? It's not really much different in Skyrim. Haha.

Engine or level scaling?

The amount of times Skyrim has crashed on me can be counted with fingers. The amount of time Oblivion has crashed on me needs the fingers of every person on the block. And at level 50 Falmer caves don't only have Shadowmasters.

On the 360 I crashed about half a dozen times, two were unfair crashes, the other ones were from when I did that dupe glitch for soul gems and spawned so many that it crashed.
As to Oblivion, I remember seeing regular enemies constantly, just cause I reached higher levels didn't mean that the world was entirely poplated by bears. I saw wolves too.
And in Goblin caves I saw variety of goblins, there were more of the stronger kind than usual but Skyrim did exactly the same thing.
Before I quit Skyrim the last draughr tomb I went down into had like 80% deathlords. :/

Every new console makes PC games less relevant you can say ya but till you turn blue but it's a fact. Consoles are made for one thing to play games. Yes you will still be able to play a game with better graphics but not many most developers are making games for the console's this is going to become even more prevalent with the next console that comes out i can't wait myself . The next gen consoles will take gaming to the next level just like the 360 did.

Whaaa. No one read that.

With the tiny difference that you'd probably just be spewing senseless fluff while the OP wrote a rather long a detailed review that was by and large spot on. You can pretend like the engine for Skyrim isn't using very old tech but that's all it is, pretense. You can pretend that gamesas couldn't have made high quality master textures and then downscaled them for level of detail purposes, in order to make the framerate decent, but again, pretense. It's hardly anything new, though. gamesas can make stunning visuals but they're stunning due to the scope. Not because the tech in the engine is cutting edge that is perfectly optimised for top of the line graphics cards.

And graphics aside, I really don't think there was any single thing he said about the gameplay that I disagree with. One thing he was kind enough to not mention, by the way, was how [censored] terrible the dialogue and the dialogue system really is, since that too has been streamlined to Oblivion and consequently lost whatever depth there ever was in it.

That's because you're not understanding what he's saying. I'll provide you with an example of what he did relative to what he's annoyed about BGS doing. Think back to Doom 3. It was supposed to be awesome-looking but ID didn't quite have the time to polish everything and the engine wasn't *that* great either. So what did they do to hide the fact that "round" things were still blocky? They made the entire damn game almost pitch black. What 74 did was the equivalent of removing that fake darkness so you could actually see the graphics involved.

There's a difference between "making things that look good" and "faking that you've made things look good". He's a graphics guy so of course he's going to know which is which, and since it's his area of expertise, he is of course somewhat annoyed that BGS took shortcuts and used that to camouflage low quality work instead of doing things properly.

I agree with pretty much everything you are saying (didn't read the spoiler section, however). But still feel like this is the best game there is. That fascinates me.

"kids on consoles", what is wrong with you gramps?

If you don't like it, what's the point of visiting the Skyrim forums?

Disagree with a lot here, think graphic is ok, yes an pure pc game or waiting two years for next gen consoles would give better graphic would give better one but doing Skyrim on 1/3 of the budget or waiting two years would be an much worse option.
The art style/ environment is very good.

The Journal system in Skyrim is one of the weak part of the game, not like Oblivion who was decent here but much worse, with very short description of the quest that you often have no idea that you are doing.
Bad because it had been so easy to add more text, even radiant quests could include the name and city of the quest giver.

Magic here we agree, removing magic totally in TES 6 would be an less letdown than Oblivion to Skyrim.

For the rest I call it nitpicking and complaining that things are either as in Oblivion or changed. For one I liked the one and two hand categorization much better than blade and blunt in Oblivion, it also two different combat and play styles.

World/ dungeon design is great, variation is also great and on Morrowind/ Oblivion level, granted Morrowind had way more diverse architecture. Level scaling is pretty ok, similar with Fallout 3. Option to finding crap is Oblivion style level scaling or less loot.

Agree with NPC, way to much babble, to few dialogue options, why does I auto accept quest just by initiating dialogue?

Overall, except the standard complains, you forgot attributes, it's two much nitpicking, unrealistic demand and complain about things not changed since Oblivion.

Not much about all the annoying game decisions, followers who prefer hunting bows over enchanted daeric and no way to remove the hunting bow. Werewolves are to weak, lack of higher damage magic spells, npc babble, yes they follow you inside houses so they can finish.
Issues who is much easier to fix than adding different housing styles in all towns.

Salieri, in the movie Amadeus. "There are too many notes."

justJules, Bethesda Softworks Forums. "There are too many words."

You need a blog and you need to drive folks to it by tantalizing bits of your post into the forum. I not only don't agree almost entirely but also do not have time to go through and do it here. I'll be back to you on this.

When I say kids on consoles, I generalize. You would agree the the most % of the console crowd is 10 to 21 y.o.?

I completely agree with seventyfour about the NPC dialogue and guild questlines. The world (Map) is way better done than before, expect for the major "hold capitals", but everything else seems... shallow.

The OP does make a lot of valid points. I don't agree with the graphic issue, but then again, I'm not a programmer or modder and my untrained eyes love the graphics.

Now, I really hope that Bethesda is actually listening to the constructive criticism presented here on the forums. I am a HUGE TES fan and after playing Morrrowind and then Oblivion for years (both are still installed), I had high expectations for Skyrim. There is always a huge gap between TES games, because a lot goes into the development. I would never discredit the Dev Team for their amazing work, for their long hours, for their ideas and all the cool stuff we can find in Skyrim (Blackreach for example).

However, I guess I'm rather disappointed by the repetitiveness and the lackluster of the NPCS. They are boring and really annoying at times. I never wanted to go on a killing spree in either Morrowind or Oblivion, but omg I came close to wiping out whole towns in Skyrim LOL (no I didn't hahaha). Or at least I want to kill all the guards. *rolls eyes*

And I really hope they will do something (not sure if anything CAN be done though) about the "no consequences to your action" issue. Can't they add some more scripts, so people will realize you are The Harbinger, or Thane, or Arch Mage?

Oh yea, and not to forget about Magic damage. I usually played a Spellsword in Oblivion, mixing 1-H blade with Destruction magic. I like that you can actually wield both in Skyrim, but I wouldn't mind to wield one or the other again, if my fire balls would actually damage something. Oh sure, NPCs can fry my butt, yet I'm just blowing smoke out of my hands? So, yea, needless to say, I never bothered to develop a mage.

Now, I've played Skyrim for over 500 hours so far. It's the only game I currently play and I love it dearly! And I will continue to play it again and again and waiting for cool mods and then play it some more. It just hurts that my favorite game series missed so many opportunities here; so much potential just went by the wayside. I'm sure glad I got it for PC though! LOL Console and Mods FTW

FUS RO DAH (btw love the Dragon Battle Music! )

Well, except for the Uncharted series... or Killzone 2 & 3... Or God of War 3...

Dungeon design is rather terrible. There are way too many "if you go past this point, you can't go back unless you beat the enemy" situations, which serve no purpose but to make it a hell of a lot harder for modders to tamper with the level scaling. And while it's quite practical that every dungeon of any size has a convenient shortcut back to the entrance, it's also hugely repetitive and hugely unrealistic. But of course it's a natural consequence of the removal of teleportation spells. When you can't cast a mark at the beginning of a dungeon and then recall back to it once you've cleared the dungeon, you're stuck with a lot of long and boring treks through empty ruins. Which is why BGS made every single dungeon out there conveniently have a shortcut to the exit that can only be reached from one way.

The dungeons themselves are mostly fine, though they suffer at higher levels because you've seen it all. Every dungeon is level scaled so every dungeon has a completely predictable difficulty. Since they're scaled to be just right for your level, it means that if you end up powerful relative to the scaling, then every single dungeon in all of Skyrim will be a cakewalk and there won't be any dungeon out there that actually is dangerous.

My main character is a level 50+ warrior Breton. You can probably guess how much danger she's in when she goes dungeon-crawling. In case you can't, the answer is absolutely none whatsoever. Dragr deathlords haven't been the least bit scary for 20 levels or so, Forsworn can be a problem in groups but since they're rarely more than two at a time, they die easily. Bandits? Pffft. Weak, pathetic fools. And this is a general problem with excessive level-scaling of enemies. It easily makes all the encounters feel the same and it means that there aren't any dungeons where I should feel the least bit scared of entering. There are no "dangerous" areas that are relatively hazardous and no regular zones which pose a challenge but are generally safe, as long as you're patient and careful.

Contrast this with BG2 and the De'Arnise Keep vs the Underdark Beholder Lair. The Keep is generally considered quite safe to do as the first thing once you're out of Johnny's Basemant, whereas the Beholder Lair is suicide unless you know what you're doing or you're using certain cheese items of beholder-nerfing. And yet both areas are level-scaled. It's just that one area is more aggressively scaled (with stronger enemies) than the other. BGS could learn a lot from that.

What level-scaling should've included in TES5 is a significant difference in the aggressiveness of level scaling (meaning "easy" areas and "hard" areas) and of course scaling through numbers. As overpowered as my Breton is, and regardless of how effortlessly she kills any opponent one on one, it remains rather unsafe to have 5+ Falmer crowding her and stabbing away. Alone they're walking corpses but in a group, they're still dangerous. Somewhat, at least.

At this stage it is utterly trivial to run through dungeons and never encountering more than 3 enemies at any given time. 3 enemies means they'll all be dead before my "slow time" shout runs out. It also means they'll probably all fall down with a shout of unrelenting force. In other words, 3 enemies are really not much of a hazard because they'll never actually get a chance to attack me in a group.

What if there were 10 enemies? 15 enemies? And not just pissy skeletons that die if you give them a mean stare, but actual, serious enemies that are all gunning for you? The Legion / Stormcloaks fort battles had some of this but there wasn't much tactics involved and you had a largely infinite backup force with you. Imagine a dragon priest throne room with an actual honor guard of 8 draugr deathlords? At earlier levels they'd just be regular draugr or restless draugr (and some of them might not come alive at all), but late game they're deathlords. Imagine if the dragon priest had a couple of lesser priests as well, who could cast a variety of summoning spells? I don't know about you but to me such an encounter would actually be fun.

Imagine if dragons stopped attacking settlements (where the dovahkiin has plenty of backup and fodder meatshields) and instead ganged up on the dovahkiin when he's isolated in the middle of nowhere, making it one dragon-born vs two or three or four ancient dragons? Sure, that much fire would murder my framerate, but who wouldn't be a little worried about turning their back on three dragons while dealing with the fourth? I know I would.

And the best thing about using numbers more actively in level-scaling is that it doesn't require all bandits to have glass equipment. it doesn't require 50% of deathlords to have ebony stuff. It doesn't require the extinction of all the normal low-level critters. A horde of very pathetic regular draugr is still an effective fodder meatshield that prevents me from getting to the draugr spellcaster, who is bombarding me with ice spells.

A horde of small spiders would still prevent me from getting to the giant spider, which would admittedly be more of a problem if giant spiders had a giant ranged attack they'd reliably use. Webbing, poison, acid, but just something that would force me to not just find a doorway and laugh at them. And who wouldn't want to fight 50 small spiders, 20 medium spiders, and one towering giant spider with a massive ranged attack and a sickly poisonous melee attack? Then again, I'm an arachnophobe and a general hater of spiders so maybe I'm just biased that way.