No, AP is just a more powerful version of normal ammo.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. :tops:

I'm still a bit at loss on some info (probably due to some lackings in this language). Does the DT - in this game - negate all damage below or equal to it, or does something (a small percentage, for example) still go through?

I wanted to thank Mr.Sawyer for explaining

A small percentage (0.2) will ALWAYS penetrate the armor. If the DT is LOWER than the amount of DAM, then that DAM minus the DT wil go through.

In other words, pump enough lead into them, they will die.

So you CAN kill someone in power armour with a BB gun!
..Given enough BBs. And time. I suppose if you surround them with BBs they won't be able to breathe, and will as such suffocate.

Mod #1... (find a way to safely) remove the 20%rule.

*Might just be a convenient GECK option left open to us.

*** Actually, I am more concerned about repeated behavior like the Dad letting you waste all of the BB's he gives you ~on his face and neck... then giving you more when you ask.

lol
it'd probably take so much time to kill the person
that they would die from drowning in an ocean of BBs rather than the damage

Really? Dont think i like that.

Me neither. And if that is the case, I'd very much like to hear the reasoning.

I mean, stuff like that can potentially nullify the DT in certain situation.

Bearing in mind that DT inherently only stops low powered weaponry, 20% of low powered is "lo" - so not much damage at all.
Having said that, Sawyer did word it in such a way that it sounds like it's controlled by a gamesetting, so I bet the second mod (because we all know what the first mod will be ) will be removal of that 20%

I would expect the reason is almost certainly related to smooth gameplay and balancing issues)
*( and anticipated player impatience & frustration at doing no damage; despite common sense telling you that you can't scratch them with that weapon. )

** Might also be to avoid the invincible kid problem. Where enemies murder you for being untouchable. This happens sometimes in "Bad Day in LA", where non-targetable NPC's might get splashed by a grenade and come hunting for you. :shrug:

Awe, NOO! I hope I miss understood something. I though the point of DT was to stop crap like that from happening

They better make it so that if you're doing min damage because of DT, there is 0% chance for a critical hit.

"Plink...........Plink.........Plink..........Plink...........This svcks........Plink.........Plink.........HEAD EXPLODES!!!!!!!!!!"

All weapons will do a minimum amount of damage. The idea is to balance out high DAM and high DPS. Full auto lower damage weapons work much better in some situations, but really high damage single shot weapons shine against heavily armored enemies.

But what's that got to do with some damage always going through regardless of DT?

(If that part of the discussion was what you were referring to)

So no matter what the dt is and the weapon damage is there will always be at least minimum damage being dealt right?

So if dt is 15 and weapon damage is 15 they just cancel out and minimum damage still goes through?

This is excellent. Not for the damage getting through, but for the fact that we can set it with what sounds like a single variable in the GECK. First thing I do after getting the game is fire up the GECK and set that variable to zero.

What's the rationale behind allowing some damage bleedthrough from a game design perspective? I mean, it theoretically allows for the silly FO3esque "I shoot a power-armored Enclave shock trooper to death with a BB gun" shenanigans that were so anti-immersive, so I'm interested to hear why you guys chose to allow some bleedthrough.

Its for the casual players that will be turned off/think its a glitch when they pump a thousand bullets into a piece of armor where the dt is higher then their weapon damage and it does ZERO damage.

hope there's a way in settings on consoles to turn it off. (the min damage thing that is)
won't make me feel as invincible otherwise :sadvaultboy:

With armor other than power armor I could see it. Like how a bulletproof vest stops a bullet but you still get a bruise where it hit you, as if some blunt damage got through.

Oh I'm sure! It's the only thing that keeps us from going insane prior to the release of the game.

At least the pre-release speculation is for the most part harmless and/or humorous, perhaps occasionally on the mark but mostly all over the map. What I don't relish is the after-release whining and complaining about every little thing that Player X doesn't like, Player Y chastising Player X as an idiot, and Player Z coming down on Player Y for playing forum cop. Its at that point that one of you all wade through the crowd and put us all down (not unlike mowing one's way through Gary's in a vault I would imagine?). :ahhh: When this stage hits, I'll vanish into the NV-GECK and Mod forum - the storm isn't nearly as bad in there.

Until then, 54 more days of GECKulation! Muhahahahaha! :rock:

I like the explanation that JES gave about DT, it's simplified and likely won't require 20 different variable settings in the GECK. I wonder how extensive the DT is for an armor, is it one value for the entire thing? Or does each limb get a DT? That would probably be too complicated actually.. Hmm

It sounds like you're stuck, since it's a GECK variable... Which the consoles obviously can't modify, lacking a dev console or a GECK of their own.

So... Buy the PC version, I guess? Sorry.



This is a good point, but the problem is that it sounds like it's a flat variable that applies even to high end suits like PA. The main thing is that you shouldn't be able to whittle away a power-armored soldier's hit points by hitting them with a switchblade or a bb gun.

Which reminds me. Does anyone know if helmets will have different DT ratings compared to their suit? Or is each hit's damage calculated based on the character's total DT no matter where it hits?

I hope it's different, but it's probably not. :glare: