The chose to live in windhelm because it was the closest city. But I agree aren't exactly the best race to be making a case for.



Thanks. Also I agree, the empire has had some pretty idiotic emperors, and have done bad things, but overall tamriel is more peaceful when the empire is dominant, even when the empire does morally questionable things.

The Thalmor already have enough intel on the Empire. The Empire is also a lot less homogeneous than Skyrim is, I wonder how many sleeper agents the Thalmor have planted, especially within the higher echelons. If the Empire declared war, there's a chance they would know their every move before the war even started.

They are communist in the sense that they are forcing people into certain beliefs while not allowing freedom of religion. They are holding onto regions of land that while under their thumb of rule, don't want to be part of their 'empire'.

Now, there is my supporting arguments, so now I think you should leave the discussion junior. Of course we all understand how one of the tent poles of communism is control of the media... are you a communist too? I think that maybe you should loosen up a bit and realize it's a game meant to be fun, and that can include friendly, fun conversations, at least for the grown ups.

Just a friendly reminder to keep things civil on here, I wouldn't want this thread to get locked. You guys are all sharing some really good and interesting views and I would like to hear more, so lets try to keep things under control.

-Thanks

Just defending myself, I think he should of been warned for telling me to leave the discussion earlier... but whatever, doesn't matter.

Wow, Cold War propaganda hit you pretty hard, huh, mister? Forcing people to have certain beliefs and not allowing freedom of religion is not communist, and that's not entirely what they're doing either, there's a bit of a gray area. It would be more appropriate to label those actions as totalitarian.

I'm sorry if I made it seem as though I was addressing you personally, I just put that up to try and keep everyone calm and try to keep this discussion as a friendly debate. Again, I was in no way trying to call you out or anything. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Be sure to make a continuation of this thread once the comment limit is reached.

but that 's been done since organized states were first created, it's nothing specific only to communism, and back more directly to TES the empire allowed freedom of relegion till the White Gold concordate and that was only because it was forced on the empire it wasn't their chosen policy

Don't worry, I am a little new to the forums but I assure you I had planned to make a new thread, thanks for reminding me

Okay. Thanks for clearing that up.

where does it say that her army is the largest? not trying to nitpick i just want to know if i missed something and would like to know

We can extrapolate from the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Decree_of_Monument that after Vvardenfell, the Dunmer were given particular enclaves because they were meant to remain sovereign, to not have to swear fealty or do the other ordinary things Skyrim citizens would be expected to do. Knowing the Dunmer's insularity, this was probably something they insisted on as much as the Nords. The decree mentions only Solstheim, but since it's posted at the Refugee's Rest just outside Windhelm, I don't think it's too far a stretch to assume that the Grey Quarter was formed under the same sort of agreement.

The Altmer vendor Niranye implies that the Dunmer are in the Grey Quarter because they choose to be. Some of the more resentful Dunmer imply they aren't allowed to live anywhere else. Since we don't have an objective source, it's up to speculation.

In Riften they tried another path of resettlement- integrating the refugees into the town. This has been far from peaceful or easy. I don't think you can look at Windhelm or Riften and say which method of dealing with the influx was better. It just naturally offends the modern mentality that "ghettos" are instruments of oppression rather than self-selected communities that some people wouldn't leave even if they could.

Revyn Sadri, who has a storefront, does appear to pay taxes. We don't know if that's all of them. He only pays more than the Nords if he's suspected of bartering stolen goods.

I think this is more a leadership problem. Since Uriel Septim VII there wasnt any real leadership, the current emperor (which i killed in my game) or Ulfric (which i also killed) arent fit for the job. Ulfric is too narrow minded and the current emperor gives the feeling that avoids complicated decisions.

I see where the stormcloacks come from, but i thinks skyrim would be a better place with the legion in charge

This is incorrect. Those discharged soldiers were left for a battle before the Great War ended, when the general was called by the Cyrodill to uproot the Adlmeri who'd taken the capital city. The discharged soldiers didn't succeed in routing the Adlmeri out of Hammerfell. When Hammerfell repelled the Aldmeri, they did it alone.

As for the dunmer in the grey quarter, they're racist slavers. The Dunmer admit that the worst of the Stormcloaks is Rolf, and the only thing Rolf does is yell at them at night. However, when asked about the murders, the dunmer say "I don't care until a Dunmer dies."

To recap, the Nords gave their ancient enemies free land and all they do is moan and complain. They don't aid in the war effort. Only one family aids by farming. The rest squat.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Decree_of_Monument

The second paragraph refers to the terms under which the Dunmer accepted Skyrim's hospitality. "Untithed" means they do not pay taxes; "self-governing" and "with no compensation to Skyrim" speak for themselves.


Since the only part that would be affected would be the Grey Quarter (as there is no indication AFAIK that they will be given other housing, and none is available anyway), I think it would be easy enough to show changes there at some point. We get a damaged Whiterun, Solitude, etc. after other CW events, I don't see how it would be any more complicated to show the same level of change for the better in one small area of Windhelm.

And if we are going to chalk the lack of actual improvement up to game mechanics or limitations, then there plenty of things that Ulfric does or doesn't do for what are probably the same reasons that lead to derogatory comments about him, so IMO fair's fair.

In reality the only thing Brunwulf does that is any different AT ALL is talk about having meetings to discuss plans to decide what, if anything, he will do with the extra money the city will have now that the war is over.


The only person I have ever heard make this claim is Brunwulf. I have done his quest a couple of times, and I always get sent to kill the bandits at Uttering Hills Cave. Apparently they are the ones attacking all the non-Nord caravans. Funny but I've also been paid to clear out the same bandits after Ulfric had his steward issue a bounty on them. So....


Whereas the Jarls of every other city take personal offense if one of their citizens - or heaven forbid, their own guards, employees of the hold - makes derogatory statements to you or constantly refers to your non-Nord race in a negative fashion. Except for the fact that they totally don't.


See the link above. And again, the events that caused the mass of Dunmer to flee to Skyrim took place ALMOST TWO HUNDRED YEARS AGO. They were given that part of the city, tax free, rent free, to live in as a self-governing people, long before Ulfric was born, before even his father was born, and he had nothing whatsoever to do with it or how and why they ended up there. By continuing to allow them to live there as they do he is upholding the agreement made between the Dunmer and his forefathers, assuming his family was even in charge of the place at the time. By continuing to maintain their status as a "separate people" (in a political sense) by not paying taxes or being in any other way obligated to the city, hold, or province in which they live, the Dunmer are also upholding that agreement, except they are the complaining about the fact that Ulfric is doing the exact same thing.

And yes, unless you want to believe that Windhelm just happened to have an entire quarter of its buildings sitting unoccupied when the Dunmer arrived, then the people who lived there must have been evicted to make room for them, whether they were Nord or not. Since we do not know what condition it was in when the Dunmer took it over, claiming they were given a slum is an assumption based on bias and not on fact. Even if it was a slum, they've had ample time to turn it into something else, as I've said before - they are not paying rent, not paying taxes, and many of them have what appear to be successful businesses, clearly they are not putting any of their profits into improving the property that they already own free and clear and for which they alone are ultimately responsible.

At the end of the day I have yet to hear an argument for the Stormcloaks that trumps arguments for the Empire, additionally even after doing both storylines I found that the Stormcloaks just seemed to have far more cons than pros on its own accord and when compared to the Empire.

Most of the men fighting were those discharged soldiers who had been trained and given supplies during their service in the legion, so yes the redguards did it alone, but they had indirect help from the empire

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/540677806137983568/63AD75954DB952886FB9C1F2482BA9D11E971C85/
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/540677806137992102/3BD5FDB7A28D3C27438A47B913E87E729A4FE2E7/
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/540677806138905089/87964756528BB7C0F9C46C512F5B7CD96FE3D82D/

And?

i think you quoited the wrong person

The entirety of the Imperial player's stance on "Stormcloax suk!!!!" relies on racism, racism that isn't really seen anywhere short of Rolf, the guy who owns the docks, and the inn keeper. Every decision Tulius makes in the civil war is the wrong one. Rikke carries the Imperial line. Let's not forget that Tulius is openly racist against nords, constantly belittling their traditions and ideals throughout the entire imperial quest line.

Imperials like to say that Ulfric works for the dominion, but they always forget that the Aldmeri tricked him into thinking he escaped. If you thought you escaped from captors, would you consider them your friends? Hardly.

Imperials like to say that the Empire is the only hope for defeating the Aldmeri. The thing is, elves reproduce slower than Humans by a large margin. It's why the snow elves attacked the Nedes when Ysgramor first settled in Skyrim. The truth of the matter is that the Dominion is already defeated and they're stalling for time by using its imperial puppets to fight against themselves. The fact is that were the Empire defeated, the dominion couldn't invade Skyrim. The place hasn't been invaded ever. It has too many natural boundaries and the nords know their lands well. What's more, I could see the Nords and Reguards making an alliance, but that's an entire thread in itself.

I forgot my other bullet points but when they come to me i'll post them later.

You must have me confused for someone else or you are imaging something that isnt there, I dont dislike them because of the popular and misguided notion of the Stormcloaks being racist, they arent. Neither is Tullius, both sides can be racially insensitive perhaps but thats nothing new nor is it full blown racism.

Do me a favor and comment on what I have said rather than assume or put words in my mouth, lets keep this friendly and civilized in discussion.

The Dominion took the Imperials by surprise and blew up the Imperial City, I think I'd surrender too if that happened.