So all the tanks, planes, guns, artillery, ammunition, oil, raw resources, etc. don't count? we sent them a massive amount of war materials before and after our entree to the war, the only thing we didn't send was men and they didn't want those to begin with. and they already hated us for being "decadent capitalists" while they were communists

You have an outside view of it. The Legionaire swears loyalty to the emperor, but they server their general. Mede told all troops to leave Hammerfell, but the General their told many of them to stay anyway, and they did.

That's entirely speculation. We don't know that for sure. What we do know is that General Decainus left behind invalids, not ample soldiers. And the assistance of discharged Legion soldiers doesn't mean they have to like the Empire, it means they should appreciate that general's decision. Keep in mind, Hammerfell was in their own civil conflict during the Great War, that ended when the Aldmeri occupation began.

So why are other races so prominent in Stormcloak territory? If they are so racist, why don't they evict them or drive them out?

No, she doesn't say that.

http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv146/gmosko/Skyrim/sybillemoot1.jpg
http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv146/gmosko/Skyrim/sybillemoot2.jpg
http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv146/gmosko/Skyrim/sybillemoot3.jpg

Note that she says Torygg "might" have agreed with Ulfric about seceding. He also might have sent him back to prison or worse. Regardless, Torygg did nothing openly about it if he planned to secede, and Sybille contradicts herself by saying Torygg wasn't ready to let the empire fall apart. This is the only person who even mentions that Torygg had thoughts of seceding.

The Stormcloaks think they can keep Skyrim isolated to the issues of the surrounding provinces. But if they decide to continue the Civil War story in DLC, the Stormcloak side would find that they cannot avoid the Aldmeri Dominion and need the assistance of the other provinces to fight it.

That's a bad example. General Decainus discharged invalid soldiers from the his Legion, asking them to remain in Hammerfell. Those that were left behind were no longer serving the Empire.

Exactly, he didn't want to retreat from Hammerfell, but he had to, but he left whatever he could in order to help the Redguards.

The U.S. leased resources to the U.S.S.R. until they could get mobilize their own military. I don't think U.S. supplemental assistance was vital to the Russian victory. The allies aided Russia by forcing Germany to fight a two-front war. Otherwise, Germany would've probably entered a stalemate with Russia.

I'm glad you agree with me.

If you side with the Empire, you are a communist.

Your logic makes no sense, so please give some support to your "theory", or get out of this discussion.

The Empire doesn't begin to resemble communism, so this is a falsehood.

Since Ulfric is trying to establish alliances with both High Rock and Hammerfell even before he wins the war, this is an inaccurate view of Stormcloak goals.

They'd still lose against the Thalmor without Imperial help.

They pretty much do.... they allow dunmer in windhelm, but they have to live in the slums, argonians and kahjiit aren't allowed in the cities, the only exception is Riften, but Riften is often referred to as a corrupt impoverished slum.

Because the empire's leadership has been so great up to now?

I do think Cyrodiil and Skyrim need to work together. Cyrodiil doesn't have to have its boot on everyone's neck in order for that to happen.

Tiber Septim is dissapoint that his empire turns against itself D:

Nords forget that Nords are the empire. Stormcloaks need to look at the bigger picture. If the Empire were to fall then Tamriel falls.

Think about it like this if skyrim wins the civil then declares war in the AD it would probably sign a treaty with hammer fell and unless the empire is a bunch of pussies then they would seize their chance for revenge and attack as well so the AD would be fighting a three front war and black marsh seeing their chance for land gains would most likely attack as well

The Dunmer were given that part of the city after they fled Morrowind almost 200 years ago. They were immigrants seeking refuge in Skyrim after catastrophic events in the homeland, and were given places to live under their own sovereignty within Skyrim's borders where they do not swear fealty to local authority or pay taxes to support public services. They are supposed to be self-supporting and self-governing.

Neither Ulfric nor the Stormcloaks put them in the Grey Quarter, they've been there for several Nord generations. Any previous residents - some of them, no doubt, tax-paying citizens - would've had to leave and find other housing when the Dunmer arrived. It was a gift to an influx of otherwise homeless refugees who wanted and were allowed to remain a separate people within the city, hold, and province, responsible for their own affairs. We don't know whether it was a "slum" or not when they moved in there. If it wasn't, then they have failed to keep it from becoming one; if it was, then they have failed to do anything about it. They are not paying any rent or any taxes, which is why they are not being extended the same public services. The money they are not paying in rent and taxes is supposed to be theirs to do with as they please. If they're not using it to provide public services within their own community that isn't Ulfric's fault.

As for the Khajiit, they are not allowed in any cities, even the ones controlled by the Empire - before, during or after the war and regardless of its outcome. Using their situation as a slam on the Stormcloaks is a failed argument because the Empire doesn't treat them any differently.

And FWIW there will be no changes of note in Windhelm after the Empire's man replaces Ulfric as Jarl and the Legion controls the city. The Dunmer will still be relegated to the Grey Quarter, the Argonians will still be relegated to the docks (that's actually the new Jarl's stated policy) and of course the Khajiit will still be kept outside the city walls as well.

Since when are the dunmer not citizens who don't have to pay rent or taxes, can i have a source? Also Ulfric should be telling his citizens not to treat the dunmer as bad as they do, and free winter actually does start to help them out, the only reason it isn't shown is because that would be a pain for the developers to completely change a whole city. And as for the kahjiit your right that is the nords keeping them out, but I highly doubt the empire supports it since cyrodiil is a much more fair place.

But seriously i don't think skyrim will change much depending on who wins, and the thalmor will fall no matter what, i just think that the empire is going to be better for long term peace in tamriel after the civil war and the second great war.

As to the Sayers that ulfric stormcloak being a kingslaying racist thuum weilding power hungry tyrant as the reason why they dont support him and those are the reasons he will never win...lets have a history lesson.

Tiber Septim only became king because he betrayed and assassinated his friend the king and took his spot. Tiber Septim was very racist against elves and other cultures in that every culture he conquered had to conform to his ways and not theres. He was power hungry also in that he believe he should have the whole of tamriel as his and he would would take it with fire and sword if it was not given. He was also a thuum user as well. Tiber Septim was a tyrant as well and never cared for any single person except himself and those that could be used.e.

And yet this racist kingslaying power hungry thuum using backstabber created the very empire that saved the world multiple times and even created the empire in which the medes is duplicating and tooken over...

I dont get it. Its not ok for ulfric to have the same qualities as the very founder of the empire itself?

But Ulfric himself cares nothing about anyone who lives in Skyrim who isn't a Nord. He sends his Stormcloak soldiers if a Nord caravan gets raided but not at all when an Imperial Caravan or a Breton caravan or a Khajiit caravan gets raided. Ulfric turns a blind eye to racism in his city as well. Even if he himself is too busy, he has a steward that can take care of those problems.

And where did you get that the Dunmer don't pay taxes or anything? Besides, Ulfric would NEVER evict a Nord for an elf. The slum aspect is not because of the Dark Elves. It's because the Nords of Windhelm made it into a slum by keeping them inside that area and straying from that area.

They are not citizens. They were offered free housing, dont have to pay taxes, jarls cannot force them into fighting for them only the high king can, they have the right to govern themselves.

They are not citizens, hence they are correct when they say the civil war is not their war. They live in skyrim but are not citizens of skyrim. They do not have to deal with the unpleasentness of the laws and taxes and wars of skyrim but they also miss out on the benfits from being citizens in as security and help from the taxes that citizens pay with taxes.



Also like to point out, the dunmer CHOSE the city of windhelm as their new home and CHOSE to seperate themselves to the grey quater. Nords didnt put them there or even in the city itself. The dunmer chose that city as an act of irony since that was the old capital of skyrim that used to wage war on the dunmer. They seperated themselves because they were mad the nords didnot appreciate the dunmer ways and thought things would be changed to suit their needs but found that the nords expected them to honor skyrims ways....u know the whole when in time do as the Romans do thing.

The Dunmer fled to Skyrim to escape a violent war, they shouldn't be forced to join one just because some guy in a big chair tells them to.