I guess those are fair points, NothingButKnight. What I was more thinking of were the random little items you'd find. Some legendary sword in the back of a random-ass cave that you might've never thought twice about skipping on all of your other characters but your 20th Nord Warrior finally found a reason to be there and -holy crap!-. Or the the NPC's on the roads. All of that stuff is hand placed, and sort of lost in Skyrim - if it isn't radiant AI, it isn't an NPC stranded on the road waiting to be helped.

Even the geographical layout of Morrowind was genius. There was no need for invisible walls because you were on an island. Much of the island was inaccessible by fast travel, and many places were so mountainous or hilly you'd never know that Pelagiad would be within spitting distance of Seyda Neen without levitation. And also, the fog (much maligned though it was) often helped to enhance the mystery and add apparent size to the world. I play with a graphical mod right now with a huge view distance and no fog - I had no idea you could see Ebonheart from pretty much any of Vivec's east-ward (or was it westward?) facing cantons. In my mind I always imagined them as being much farther apart.

So in conclusion I think that Morrowind has Skyrim beat on pure world design, even if it is a step-up from Oblivion.

It didn't have an alien feel at all, I don't see how anyone could think that. It looks like earth, with creatures that live or have lived on earth such as bears, wolves, sabre cats. Morrowind had giant mushroom trees and exotic wildlife. Skyrim has nothing like that.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I love Skyrim. But no it certainly didn't have an exotic or alien feel to it at all.

Skyrim felt pretty alien to me. I'm not sure how much of that feeling was imparted by the strange new interface. There aren't many Vikings in furs and iron, giants, sabre cats, mammoths roaming the land around my home.

Skryim feels like Earth as someone stated Earth with elves, and dragons and cat people and reptile people. I'll give a comparison between Oblivion and Skyrim. Yes, Oblivion was also very familiar to me, but my favorite DLC was Shivering Isle. The Shivering Ilse was definetely something alien and unique, imo. It was something I had never experienced before, one of my all time favorite DLCs to be honest with you. When I hear the word alien and foreign, I think Shivering Isle. Skyrim is extremely meek in that case. Oblivion is also a little meek. Morrowind, had that alien feel from time to time. But Skyrim is not alien.

didnt have the alien feel like many others said it just reminds me of earth for the most part.

To the OP: Skyrim has the same earth-like design as Oblivion. The only difference is that one has more ice. As for what Todd said, well, just consider his statement as LIE 1001...and counting.

I think Skyrim reminds me of Morrowind in plenty of areas from the stone wall murals in dungeons to the swampy areas. It also reminds me big time of Tes 2 Daggerfall with its ancient architecture and sense of timelessness. It even reminds of Tes 1 Arena when entering some of the towns giving me a sense of shelter yet strangely feeling alone at moments. All this while still having its own very separate character and sense of being.

So yea i would say the "alien" ambience is there in a Easter Island kind of way.

So if the (broad) consensus is that Bethesda is purposely misleading us, telling untruths, or outright lying then what are we going to do about it? What can we do about it?

I feel that in particular they've been trying to say things that would pique the 'Old Guard's' interest enough to hint that we might get something more in the Spirit of Morrowind than Oblivion, and instead give us a game in some ways even less like Morrowind and its predecessors than Oblivion. As though they're purposely telling their older fans one thing to keep them on board while broadening their appeal to new audiences as much as possible. I think that this 'trick' may work one more time but if TES VI has even less skills, even less roleplaying freedom/player choice, more generic settings then I think many of us might finally have 'had it' and move on to some other franchise, if indeed one exists that harkens back to more of TES' roots.

I'm hoping for new competitor to arise in the RPG fantasy genre, to maybe keep Beth on their toes a bit more, and think more about making a really good RPG than just a slick, pretty (and very extensively advertised) FPS action game to entice a few million curious CoD players into buying it. None of the stuff in Skyrim is all that revolutionary, graphically- they just made it a lot bigger and more well-stocked than anybody else has yet. And the gameplay... pfft. It's across the board from average to mediocre to 'WTF?'. Just hoping some other more talented and creative game development companies will see the success of this title, and make games that can compete with it and hopefully improve on so much that needs improving.

But the issue is that there is no where to go.

Dragon Age Origins, imo had the ability to become a TES. It had all the pieces of both an alien world with an earthiness to it.

But they went for Dragon Age 2 which appealed to a much different audience then the one they created for Dragon Age Origins.

Fable 1, imo was the best of the three games. It had pieces of again an alien world with some earthiness. And then they sort of went to a different venue. Not completely different 2 and 3 still had what made Fable Fabley work.

But sadly the RPG genre is starting to slowly drain away. I like Kingdoms of Amular, it has an alien feel to it that I enjoy.

I've been interested in trying Kingdoms of Amalur but I'm not willing to shill out 60 bucks on a whim yet. Unfortunately, the 'look' reminds me a bit too much of Fable, especially the combat, and third person bothers me. I much prefer first person, as yet another way to 'get into character' I suppose.

Lol. But seirously have you seen tod lately? he looks like he hasn't slept in weeks.

I prefer first person as well. But I'll go with what I had.

I actually like Kingdoms of Amular more than I like Fable.

So Kingdoms of Amular takes Fable into a completely different level. I find that Kingdoms of Amular is a much more mature game than Fable, Fable feels almost like a kids toy compared to Amular.

Kingdom takes bits from other games and does it right. The artwork reminds me of Fable, the abilities have a little bit of god of war in, the boss battles are fun and satisfying, and I enjoyed the story.

Skyrim is more Nordic than Alien for me and it is suppose to be Nordic! THIS IS SKYRIM! Land of the Ones who Drinks A LOT and fights A LOT! Land of the NORDS!

Did you guys even read what is said in the linked article. Nowhere does it say skyrim is going to be alien. Some of you can't resist a sophomoric cheap shot at this Todd Howard guy, can you? Lol.

Not to mention the references in the article about 'Skyrim has what made Morrowind special' and 'The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim will hark back to Morrowind and the "wonder of discovery" - something Bethesda wittingly "sacrificed" for Oblivion.' which aren't direct quotes, from Todd Howard but clearly impressions that the author or website got after speaking to Todd.

Really, for me it's not about Todd. I know he's not the boss, for all I know many of his opinions mirror my own, it's just that this article incidentally mentions him, but I'm sure there are other examples of other Bethesda representatives making similar statements.

Sorry, but i just can't stand his squeaky little voice... damn it, there i go again. Ok I'll stop.
TES has turned me into a rageaholic. Can't walk two feet in skyrim without going into a bloosthirsty rage.

I hate the Daedric armor in Skyrim. I think that looks alien in a bad way. I feel like the alien from the film "Predator" wearing it. Why they didn't include some of the classic Nord armors like Nordic mail, Nordic fur & Trollbone, I'll never work out. Nord city guard armor looks good. Ancient Nord is great.

I like Skyrim. I think it is well balanced. I think things like the way Solitude is built on a ledge and Markarth being built into the rock should have been enhanced a little to make it a little more of a fantasy realm. I like the whole ambience and scenery of Skyrim. I like the whole Norse mythology theme as a base for the province.

It was Cyrodiil that lacked. It was good in design and graphically but being the Capital Province, I feel they covered it way to early on and should have waited until games where more able. I was hoping to see massive cities made of marble pillars in the rich Nibenay like out of Greek mythology legends. Like the cities in some of the Greek mythology based films of recent (immortals etc). The cities they made in the Nibenay area were what I would have expect to see on the shanty outskirts of a city - wooden shacks etc. The harbours of the Nibenay Valley and also Anvil should have had many more ships looking like "Trireme" Greek warships oared by slaves and prisoners. The Capital City was good but should have had an arena that put the Colosseum of Rome to shame.

The Colovian highlands were more as I expected. Cities like central Europe with Dracula castle type architecture. Skingrad, Chorrol and Cheydinhal were best. A few medieval style market squares with jesters and entertainers would have been a good addition.

It is not as alien as Morrowind was, not anywhere close. However it certainly is more fresh than Oblivion's fantasy cliché landscape. It seems that with Oblivion they were just into Lord of the Rings and wanted to make their own version. The original description of Cyrodiil isn't anywhere close to the Gondor it ended up being.

So in some ways Skyrim was a return to form. It had a more original setting and the races looked more like they did in Morrowind. Elves were more 'alien' and not like the pretty LOTR-elves. So I can see why Howard made that comment.

But if they really want to bring back that alien-vibe than they need the next game to take place on the Summerset Isles. Or at least in a non-human province!

No, absolutely no alien feel.

In fact it's "so real world like" that when you do run into something Elder Scrolls like (for example a Fire Atronach) it seem more out of place than strange.

I started the TES series with Oblivion. Then I tried Morrowind (and liked it). But I was always a bit confused about the complaint from people that prefer Morrowind, that Oblivion seemed too real. I think I get that now. Because in a way Skyrim just seems too real.

I've been wondering if maybe Bethesda should just give up on Elder Scrolls and just focus on Medieval adventure games. Right now the Elder Scrolls part seems just an add on and not integral to the game. That's not necessarily bad, just the way they seem to be heading.

So Skyrim seems just like earth with a few add ons, vs a completely alien world. In my opinion.

I thought it did... because it was the first TES game in the region of Skyrim, and I had never played a game where the setting was Skryim before. So, I didn't know where things were initially.

No, i see view similar to the Falkreath region forest from my window. And majority of the enemies you encounter in the wilds are normal animals too, that you might run into in a real forest (well, except lynxes or mountain lions instead of sabre cats ).

I have to play a khajiit to remind myself it's not the real world

I get more of a dark age mythology feel.

Yep, dark age gothic style. People need to give Beth more credit for the Nordic Ruins, I find their architecture much more other-worldly than the LoTR 'inspired' dwellings of OB.

Of course Dunmer architecture is far more 'alien' than Nordic so Skyrim can't really compete there, but I definitely feel I'm experiencing a different 'culture' when I explore Skyrim's Barrows.

Skyrim feels like I'm playing in an alternate Scandinavia.