It's true that many FPSs only have male models (and many have both) but let's remember that one of Brink's highly touted features is character customization.

Splash Damage has a number of very reasonable arguments for limiting themselves to one gender since two genders either creates twice as much work or halves the options for both. Some artwork is going to be easy to transfer from one model to another but a second gender would still create a lot of work (particularly for animations). I'm also glad they didn't try to balance everything and end up with something awkward, such as a male Security faction and female Resistance faction, or worse designate one of the sizes female and the other two male.

However while these may be reasonable arguments for exclusion that doesn't mean there aren't reasonable arguments for inclusion as well. As I said at the beginning when character customization is a big feature for your game then excluding an entire gender is going to irk some people - people would also be irked if everyone was one ethnicity for that matter.

Stepping out of the Brink section for a second, since these forums first opened (when they were exclusively for the Elder Scrolls) there have been lots of people asking about multiplayer. Morrowind didn't have multiplayer, Oblivion didn't have multiplayer, Fallout 3 didn't have multiplayer, and it looks like the core games for both series will remain exclusively single player. However that doesn't mean people can't civilly discuss Elder Scrolls multiplayer, and maybe one day there will be a spin off (like Battlespire) which incorperates multiplayer. I certainly hope Splash Damage is able to gather the resources together to later add women although I do understand that would be an enormous undertaking for the character artists and is thus unlikely.

Now. Firstly I'd like to get out that I am a man, okay? So when I say this I think it really, it would very much spruce a game up if you shoved in a couple of female models into the game, even if they are NPCs, because just having a bunch of males doesn't make you feel part of the gameplay, and that is (I think...) Splash Damage's main concern, that this game should feel realistic, and that you get connected to your character and his squad. Even if you can't play as a female, then there should be NPCs running round with children or something, to make you feel connected, like your really saving something, rather than just rushing around killing some Security or Resistance terrorists. Also to add on everyone's points about Bethesda not actually designing, they'll still have influence, they are the people pumping the cash flow into this project, they want it as good as it gets!

One of the key facts to why they decided to not include female characters is the balancing. Just as the body sizes doesn't have the same hit boxes the female hit boxes would differ from the male ones and this would cause alot of work balancing it correctly. It would be doable but they decided it was not worth it, atleast for now. Besides that we know from all movies that the girls are always secretly kung-fu-ninja-samurais with an amazing brain that can plan out everything that will happen for all eternity. That would make it super-unbalanced. Also if they do not include female civilians and NPCs they could always wrap it into the story that the resistance wants to find land cause it's been a while... yeah... Why the security wouldn't want the same is not up to me to judge, whatever floats the boat, you know.

On a more serious note I think some female devs should strike out and create thier own game series of FPHs(First-Person Hooters) and only include female characters. If mixing females and males in a game is such an issue on so many levels why does it have to mean no females, eh?

I guess I still have one chance left of being serious for once in this post. I think alot of the games where you don't have the chance of choosing gender is down to the story of the game and the character. If I'm not mistaken in almost every game where an orc appears they are always men. The mythical orcs are even said to be an only male race in alot of game lores. Also a character might be based on someone and if you changed the gender maybe the story would get lost with it. But there are also games like FO3 and ME/ME2 that handles the story very well even when you have the chance to pick. All games are not meant to please everyone to the fullest, but when you have the chance you should always try your best.

we should be able to have female operatives and snipers imo

1. It's generally not about "realism" at all for games - it's simply about choice, when deciding to start up a game and roll a character. That's it - I am not taking some stance on feminism or anything like that. I play games - I play a LOT of different games. Many games have given me only a male protagonist and I enjoy the game, without pouting. :rolleyes: Some games give me a choice of gender, much in the way most games of a sort give you a choice of "type" (rogue, sniper, scout, warrior, whatever). I am always pleased to have more options. And before you hie off into your "duh you people don't get it,it's about the production limitations yada yada yada" I get it. I read the same articles you do. Again, we were just airing an opinion/wish. I've commented on the same things in other threads and other forums.

2. The game is about combat, they will be dissapointed when they will realise it's not a barbie dress-up game. Let me offer you a little bit of advice: Change your thinking that women gamers want to play some variant of the Sims. That's a stereo type - and a ridiculous one. Update your thinking.

Women have nothing to do with barbie dress up games. Matter of fact, I believe more 13 years old boys would create a half naked female character than women themselves.

I don't think its fair. Every game has just men in it. I'm a male, but I'm against games that don't have females when a lot of females are gamers. So would a woman just give her male character a pink outfit? Maybe they could later on come out with some downloadable content with a option to have a female character?

Nah, if I am going to be forced to play a male character he's going to be a manly man. One I personally would admire. A hunk a hunk of burning love. :lmao:

Really I don't think it matters. It would depend upon what I wanted my character to do and be like sort of in the moment.

having females in games adds a whole new level of phycological side effects. It has been stated various times over on the SD forums that many players wouldn't feel comfortable if they had to shoot at women characters - this applies to a lot of people in real life scenarios as well. Females in games are just portrayed differently - Look at RPG's - look at the women avatars that dance for gold in MMO's, or when playing with a group, if there is a female avatar amonst them, there is a good chance the demeanor of the group changes - perhaps they will swear less or act flirty, or attempt to crack jokes to gain the femalesw "affection." It also has to do with the genre of game.

In rpg's, choosing between male/female is a much bigger deal. Chracters usually have stories tied to them, either provided in-game or constructed by the player - it's very personal. Story and characters are everything and the level of immersion needs to be a lot more in-depth, for stroy telling purposes, and the fact that you're "playing a role," alot of times that role being you - if you were in a fictional world.

FPS games are more about the action - even the single player storydriven ones. They can get away with telling a story and providing the main character for you - and players accept this, usuall forming a bond with the main character, just pretending it's them, or not caring and just focusing on blowing things up - The story is there, but it's more of a backdrop, some sort of justification as to why you are killing all these badguys, since the player is mainly focused on the action.

Now in Brink, we have an FPS with the ability of character creation. First off, let's be blunt - people see charcter creation, xp, unlocking abilities, they think 'rpg,' and this is their mistake, because Brink is team based objective shooter. The character creation is Brink is there more there to give the player something to "fight" for, through level ups, unlocks like abilities, outfits and weapons, and also giving the player a creative outlet. It's not there for you to create a character, and embark on an epic quest where you are sole hero who must stop the blight from spreading, or defeat the evil wizard - you're not the hero...you're just a guy. The story isn't centered around you and the war goes on with or without you.

In simpler terms, in an rpg, you're playing a character - whether it's you or an entirley fictional character you created, you still play it like it's a real person with morals and beliefs. etc where character creation options are mucjh more significant - in Brink, you're just creating soldiers, like painting men for a warhammer game - you're just creating pawns for the battlefield. It's not very personal, just faction vs faction, with 'you' being just another soldier. - like Star Wars without the main characters - just stormtroopers vs Rebel soldiers.

Now I'm not saying it's wrong or right to not have a choice in Brink, I'm just saying there's all these people saying "it's about choice," without realizing there's a lot of unseen underlying factors. I'm just trying to provide a different point of view on the matter.

You've sort of swung wide here. At the end of the day, regardless of the genre, a game is a game is a game. Some I like better than others (for many and varied reasons). I don't really buy the psychological hoo-ha about "oh, guys play the game different if there are females around." Whatever - that's an individual's problem - on either side of the gender fence. Most guys I know don't give a crap - if you svck at a game, it's because you are bad at it or not paying attention or don't take it as seriously as your co-op partner does. Most gamers, regardless of gender, have no problem distinguishing FPS and RPGs.

character creation is Brink is there more there to give the player something to "fight" for, through level ups, unlocks like abilities, outfits and weapons, and also giving the player a creative outlet. ,<--- You just described character creation in RPGs too.

I'll sum up my posts on this topic: I am in no way offended or bothered that this game does not have a gender option when you are rolling a character. :shrug: But it's nice when games can do that, I like having choice. End of story.

my point was that in rpgs, character creation is a more integral part of the game. The character and story are tied together - you're the hero or you're the antagonist.
In Brink, it's more like painting men for tabletop games. It's an 'extra' feature, something else to look forward to - you're not the hero or the antagonist. Also FPS is predominately a male genre so if the choice came down to choosing one or the other, which do you think they would choose?

buy it or not, it still exists. Your logic is like saying, "I don't care if people are offended by a game that involoves shooting flaming infants out of cannons into the bellies or war widows, that's the individual's problem." I know the example was a bit extreme, but the concept is still the same - some people would be offended by that, I wouldn't, - Some people couldn't see themselves shooting at women in games - I'm not one of them. Just because I'm not offended, doesn't mean nobody else is, and just because you don't "buy" something, doesn't mean it's not there.

I'm not against female characters, but I can understand and appreciate their reason for not using them. If you're the type of player that needs the option to create a female avatar to feel connected to them in a game that focuses on fast paced, team objective First Person (you won't see them all that much) action. Whatever - that's an individual's problem.

To not to offend anybody with shooting at females, the game's characters should be wizards using magical attacks. I mean do you know how many disney shows where female characters are harmed using magical attacks?

http://www.freemaninstitute.com/images/bullets87-97.gif http://www.nationalsportsbeat.com/images/logos/nba/Washington_Wizards.jpg

There will be no female characters from launch and lets just leave it at that. And there are sure to be more games coming out excluding female character choice and probably the other way around too. It's great when you have the option to choose but it's not for all games. Some of what H0RSE said makes alot of sense. If you think about it they call it character customization and not character creation. You don't create a character with a background story and you will not be able to change the future story of your character with choices. You are just another pawn in the war between Security and the Resistance. But still there's no reason why there can't be both male and female pawns. The reason to why they havn't included them yet is just balancing and designing and so on. It just wasn't on the top of thier priorities list. Might be one day thought!

But we waaaannnttttt to seeeeeee Hooters-esque "protective" gear. Lol.

Also, about the topic itself, I will play female characters but rarely. My only exception is Lilith from Borderlands. Lilith = Wins.

:slap:


Are you sure? :lmao:

:gun:

Yes. Lilith = Win.

I agree with you, I don't usually play as female characters but it would be intresting if there were any in this game. For some people it's more fun playing the women instead of the usual male as the hero.

It would definitely be nice to have both genders. for all the reasons people want them it just makes the game even more interesting.

Mmm, a shame that there isn't an option to play as a female.



Making statements as if they are facts without any proof that can be used as argument to support that statement.

To enlighten you; this research paper was done in 2008.


http://www.gamespot.com/news/6212734.html?sid=6212734&part=rss&subj=6212734

And this; which is done in 2010.



http://www.cgw.com/Press-Center/Web-Exclusives/2010/The-Next-Frontier-Female-Gaming-Demographics.aspx

Male dominant market? Hardly. Sure they have some leeway, but the market is becoming more equal with the day and they've being stepping in to the FPS market for quite a while.

all those stats are fine and dandy, but you missed the key point you were trying to disprove....FPS is predominately a male genre - you showed no clear cut, male vs female stats when speaking specifically about FPS games. Sure, lots of females play games, just not shooters.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/04/17/bbfc-publishes-research-on-gamer-demographics-perception/

"Female games players tend to prefer 'strategic life simulation' games like The Sims and puzzle games and spend less time playing than their male counterparts; male players favour first 'person shooters' [sic] and sports games and are much more likely to become deeply absorbed in the play."

Because there aren't any. I wasn't trying to disprove your statement per-say, I was however proving you're basing your comments on tin-air and thus you lacking any credibility in your (what comes of to me as) "FPS is our (male) game" crusade.

And making a quote like such doesn't really state anything, they prefer to do X over Y. Doesn't state by what mileage, for what reason or who and how many individuals they've asked.

this is one of those scenarios where it's true, because it is - it's common sense. I cannot find any demographics or charts to show the percentages, but across the board in the gaming world, people will tell you, FPS games are predominately made up of male gamers. But since you are one of those "not true without proof" types, you can take it for what it is.

Besides, Brink doesn't have female avatars, and all your charts and stats aren't going to change that.

In 1400 to 1492 the majority stated and took it as common sense that the Earth was flat. Even though historical findings such as charts made back in 500 BC showed a clear image of that being plausible. And see where we are today; the Earth isn't flat; apparently. Common sense says absolutely nothing about trueness or falsehood of a statement; it's just a view shared commonly amongst individuals, in no way makes common sense that view correct or incorrect.

Just because you all choose to view A as B, doesn't actually mean that A is B; A may very well not be B.



Did I state anywhere that it would?

Whats the bigger assumption? That FPS gamers are predominantly male or that the reason male voices predominate is becaues the 50% female all have broken mics?

I could probably find about 8 female FPS players on various game friendlists of mine compared with low hundreds of males.

I'm new on here but not to Bethesda games. I
Wanted to say that I hope they implement female character creation. I always play with female characters in games when possible.