My only complaint is Cazadores, WAAAAY too overpowered.

After I played Oblivion for the first time (first ES experience), I would've said you're madder than a hatter. After playing Morrowind for the first time (second ES game), I would've been on the fence. After playing Fallout 3 (first Fallout experience), I would've been between the first and second response. After playing 1/2/NV, I have to completely agree...

I'm really sad to say it, but the Bethesda that created games like Morrowind is gone, ashes in the wind. From the ashes arises a phoinex... I preferred the old cult-classic game studio to the new shiny game studio. Because the old one produced games that I could say were the best games I had ever played. Now, they're merely ones in a sea of others...

:(

Oh, I burst in rage all the time when I see these ancient series' keep with their roots. I mean, how dare they, in these times of innovation. When they sould be evolving into FPS' or the sort, they decide to stick with the old -------- they're sure doomed in the market, no-one will ever buy them and they will be shunned with their ancient design philosophies - I mean, look at them, obvious DLC [censored] for the masses.... I'm so glad Bethesda knows - or at least has a gist of - how to handle these things!

:rofl: Morrowind a cult classic? I'm assuming a few million copies sold and that it is still on Best Buy's shelves just go to show how rare it is, eh? Try Daggerfall for a Bethesda cult classic.

I went into Fallout 3 with high hopes, despite not liking Bethesda's previous games (some of you may remember me as the guy who started the "Meet the Devs" threads on the FO3 board). Ultimately, I was very dissapointed in every aspect of the game, especially the writing, and couldn't even bring myself to play more than a few hours. I was cautiously optomistic about NV, since I like Obsidian's work, and am a huge BIS fan but I knew the game would still be on the engine that I did not like.

24 hours in, all I can say is WOW! This game nails the feel of Fallout, and for the first time since 2, I feel like I am actually playing a Fallout game, even without the turn based combat and iso perspective, which I always thought of as defining factors of the series. The writing is outstanding, the world is dark, the factions fit in with canon, and most importantly, the game is FUN. I can't get the game out of my head, and am playing it every chance I get, in a way that I haven't done since the classic rpgs like Fallout 1/2, Arcanum, and BG1/2. I still wish that there were more traits, that skills went to 200, and that some of the perks from 3 (like the gender traits) weren't there, but these are very minor complaints about an outstanding game that is also an outstanding fallout game (I never thought I would play a game with the feel of Fallout after Arcanum).

Are any other fans of older rpgs (especially fallout) as blown away as I am by this game?

Diablo III is going to be top down

View Postsummer, on 02 December 2010 - 02:03 PM, said:
I really don't get the FO:3 hate or the FO:NV hate I see around here but I've been here long enough to know gamers like to line up on opposite sides with opposite views and shoot one another down for their opinions. I see it as just another game we play. It never changes anyones mind about what they like and it doesn't make anyone right or wrong, it just aggravates folks and causes flaming threads and then the moderators lock them down. :shrug:

Xanderleo...
I don't get this either. I think I'm slowly learning to stay out of these discussions. On the bright side, I've never had my opinion called factually inferior before, so at least I've experienced something new today!

the QQing in this thread is disgusting. Reminds me off the QQ over Oblivion. Fallout 3 and new vegas are both excellent games. People who complain about the storyline are idiots. Pretty much every single RPG main quest storyline involves saving the world from some evildoer. Who cares. LOTR, is the most hackneyed cliched good vs evil plot in the universe, yet every nerd still thinks its the greatest book ever written. Every so often you get lucky and there's some moral ambiguity, but good vs evil makes for better storytelling. The main quest in FO3 may have been linear but the side quests were not. There were always multiple ways to creatively complete a quest. The dialogue in Fallout 3 was well written, varied, and entertaining.

I played fallout 1 after beating fallout 3, and it was good. The writing does not strike me as better. Also, I preferred the open ended exploration/sandbox style of FO3. Other RPGs I've played are the excellent Baldur's Gate Trilogy, Icewind Dale II, and Morrowind.

Every so often you get lucky and there's some moral ambiguity, but good vs evil makes for better storytelling to me.

*fixed.

Good vs evil does not make for better storytelling for me, it makes for simplistic storytelling IMO.
Anyone can present two sides and make one good and the other evil.

Oh and alex, chill. Let's act civil here so that the thread doesn't get locked okay?

Oh, I burst in rage all the time when I see these ancient series' keep with their roots. I mean, how dare they, in these times of innovation. When they sould be evolving into FPS' or the sort, they decide to stick with the old -------- they're sure doomed in the market, no-one will ever buy them and they will be shunned with their ancient design philosophies - I mean, look at them, obvious DLC [censored] for the masses.... I'm so glad Bethesda knows - or at least has a gist of - how to handle these things!

Look at Warcarft 2,3, WoW and Hellgate:London (same team anyways). They evolved while maintain their own character. In fact all these 4 games are so innovative all the games afterward is trying to copy them.

While SC2 and Diablo3 is "back to roots" with "graphic" upgrade......yeah.....

While SC2 and Diablo3 is "back to roots" with "graphic" upgrade......yeah.....

I went into Fallout 3 with high hopes, despite not liking Bethesda's previous games (some of you may remember me as the guy who started the "Meet the Devs" threads on the FO3 board). Ultimately, I was very dissapointed in every aspect of the game, especially the writing, and couldn't even bring myself to play more than a few hours. I was cautiously optomistic about NV, since I like Obsidian's work, and am a huge BIS fan but I knew the game would still be on the engine that I did not like.

24 hours in, all I can say is WOW! This game nails the feel of Fallout, and for the first time since 2, I feel like I am actually playing a Fallout game, even without the turn based combat and iso perspective, which I always thought of as defining factors of the series. The writing is outstanding, the world is dark, the factions fit in with canon, and most importantly, the game is FUN. I can't get the game out of my head, and am playing it every chance I get, in a way that I haven't done since the classic rpgs like Fallout 1/2, Arcanum, and BG1/2. I still wish that there were more traits, that skills went to 200, and that some of the perks from 3 (like the gender traits) weren't there, but these are very minor complaints about an outstanding game that is also an outstanding fallout game (I never thought I would play a game with the feel of Fallout after Arcanum).

Are any other fans of older rpgs (especially fallout) as blown away as I am by this game?

Are any other fans of older rpgs (especially fallout) as blown away as I am by this game?

You don't see any evolvement in those two - while still keeping the essentials as was - other than graphics? No matter, though. The point is, they are not trying to evolve out of their own turf (become something else than what they were at their core), out of what made them great in the first place. And they sell (believe me, Diablo 3 will too). Which is to say, one does not have to abandon ones roots in order to evolve and excell.

Half Life 2 is another good example of what I'm talking about. And the whole Civilization series.


On a side note, I don't see what's so special about Hellgate: London.

I keep wishing someone would somehow mod Fallouts 1 & 2 so that the turn-based aspect was gone. Its the main thing keeping me from playing them, though I do intend to force myself to do it for the sake of the storylines one day.

I went into Fallout 3 with high hopes, despite not liking Bethesda's previous games (some of you may remember me as the guy who started the "Meet the Devs" threads on the FO3 board). Ultimately, I was very dissapointed in every aspect of the game, especially the writing, and couldn't even bring myself to play more than a few hours. I was cautiously optomistic about NV, since I like Obsidian's work, and am a huge BIS fan but I knew the game would still be on the engine that I did not like.

24 hours in, all I can say is WOW! This game nails the feel of Fallout, and for the first time since 2, I feel like I am actually playing a Fallout game, even without the turn based combat and iso perspective, which I always thought of as defining factors of the series. The writing is outstanding, the world is dark, the factions fit in with canon, and most importantly, the game is FUN. I can't get the game out of my head, and am playing it every chance I get, in a way that I haven't done since the classic rpgs like Fallout 1/2, Arcanum, and BG1/2. I still wish that there were more traits, that skills went to 200, and that some of the perks from 3 (like the gender traits) weren't there, but these are very minor complaints about an outstanding game that is also an outstanding fallout game (I never thought I would play a game with the feel of Fallout after Arcanum).

Are any other fans of older rpgs (especially fallout) as blown away as I am by this game?

I will never understand why anyone would want to drool over the release of a turn-based game. I have no problem with top-down games that look a bit like Baldur's Gate, nor do I think they are a thing of the past, Neverwinter Nights 2 wasn't THAT long ago. But turn-based just doesn't do it for me. We each have our own tastes, so more power to those who like turn-based games, but I HAVE to say that I am decidedly thrilled that the Fallout franchise has taken a different turn in that regard. Is it the ability to plan out your attacks that makes it so wonderful? If that is the case, I always thought that the way BG and BGII did it was a nice compromise. If you WANTED to, you could pause the game and plan out your entire party's attacks. Then unpause it and let her rip. For me though, turn-based combat destroys immersion and momentum. I just can't stand it. Any time I have ever tried to play a turn-based game, I have wanted to strangle myself. I think it would be cool if maybe some games could be released with an option to play with turn-based or with real time. Then more people would be happy. I keep wishing someone would somehow mod Fallouts 1 & 2 so that the turn-based aspect was gone. Its the main thing keeping me from playing them, though I do intend to force myself to do it for the sake of the storylines one day.

Hunt up and try Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura sometime. Amazingly similar in ways, with good reason, and has that "Do it real-time or turn-based, your choice" thing going on. Nice halfway step to ease into it with.

(And after the game hands you your ass in real-time combat a few times, you might figure out why the turn-based has a few fans...hehehe :tops: )

I keep wishing someone would mod FO3/NV to put the TB back!
Its not simply a preference for Turn Based games... It is that you can only get such an experience as a good TB game gives from a good TB game (It just doesn't exist in most games that aren't). :shrug:

The Fallout series (and this is a fact), was envisioned as a TB series, and the first three games in the IP were TB (and this is despite Interplay having published FPP and TPP RT RPGs prior to and concurrent with Fallout1 :shrug:)

This is the most recent TB game that I've bought :drool:, and while its suffers some from mainstreaming the rules, its still a great game, and worthy enough sequel to the one that came before it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2KqKfuHL4w ~I wish FO3 combat & exploration had been a lot more like this (in a Fallout equivalent sort of way); Its why I originally returned to the series.

I purchased a copy of that from Good Old Games, so thanks for recommending it because you are making me glad that I did, I haven't played it yet, but now I look forward to it even more.



But WHY do you like it so much? I would love some insight about it. When I try to play those games, the freezing up, unable to defend myself while a little cave rat attacks me just isn't fun.