Like it better in skyrim

Cheers

I can say for sure that I don't have any interest in playing a mage anymore. I tried it, it was very boring for me. On Oblivion and Morrowind I can still go back and enjoy magic. This system is so dry and dull. When I first learned it was removed I at least assumed the spell effects were sticking around. Nope...

magic + magic = magic

Give back our topics that dont involve spellmaking.

Spell making actually let you become powerful and create strategies but I can see how it can ruin the game. IF you were to create a spell by putting together 2 spells in one hand then that like having 3 arms. So make it no combining 2 different effects? People who oppose spell making are bad at magic and therefore weak or what I like to call "soft". They should make it like you can only create destruction spells after reaching 100 destruction? Like a Perk, perhaps?

I liked being able to make powerful spells at lower lvls. I would make spells that cost little to cast, and did good damage over 5 seconds or so, spit those out a few times and you don't svck.

I have not played a mage in skyrim yet though, so IDK how I will like not having this ability. Will see...

It isn't the "Blow everything up" spells I miss. It's the fun things like daggers that heal when you stab someone, Clothing that both does fire damage to and heals the wearer. I liked "on use" options for jewelry like an amulet that cures 1 point strength+intelligence+willpower+ect each use. Being able to chose between large damage/touch spells, smaller damage target spells and even smaller damage area spells whichever best suits your playstyle.
Or chose between instant heal/damage vs healing/damage over time. For the same magica I could make a spell that heals 25 points of damage instantly or heals 1 pt/sec for 30 seconds. There was a lot more room for imagination and creativity.

**waits on mods**

Fine, let's switch. You give us Spellmaking, we'll stop making threads about the loss of it.

Unfortunately, the loss of Spellmaking was just about the everything bad a few of us warned it would be. Bethesda decimated Mage game play to the point of the magic system becoming the biggest fundamental design flaw in the game, the second being going to other extreme with melee.

Bethesda deliberately crapped all over mages, the removal of Spellmaking was for no other reasons than making sure all the other nails Bethesda nailed in magic's coffin stayed put... and Shouts, which the need to maintain their importance I think was much of the reason magic was stuff into that coffin in the first place. All I need to look at to see how thoroughly Bethesda concentrated on looting Magic is my mage dropout with the 2756 damage dagger.

Shouts are stupid and gimmicky. Give me spells that do what shouts do instead next time. Gimmicks are bad, and shouts are a gimmick.

LOL!

Hmmmmm....., No.

You see, the "Supporters of Spellmaking" are like the Falmer... we were forced underground, but we out number you and will rise to take back Skyrim!

then go play them again

Yes, I would like the magic back in magic.

Given how shallow Skyrim is anyway, it really hurts my roleplaying that I cannot research and create my own spells anymore.
That more than half the spell effects are gone doesnt help either.

Its just one less thing to do in the game, less content, less game for my buck and Im really unhappy about it.
TES without spellmaking just doesnt feel like TES to me.

Edit: I love some of the ideas Im reading in this thread.
A healing rune would be really cool and useful. Cast it behind you, engage an enemy, and if things go wrong take a few steps back and -blammo- healed.

I also really like the idea of making spellmaking more involved with the world, of having the requirement of gathering supplies etc.

I tried to like FNV but I couldn't. Exempting the bugs you mentioned, I still couldn't enjoy it for some reason, I was never drawn into it, and I couldn't be compelled by it.

I dont know about having those two in charge.Didn't they both work for Troika and BIS both out os business and their current company is pretty much living paycheck to paychech.

OT. They will probably watch to see what the mods come up with and how many times the said mods are downloaded.If it is a significant number they will rethink it's inclusion

I support the removal of spell making in skyrim, but not for future TES games heres why

First off is that in oblivion, the spell making was flawed. each spell creatable in oblivion could be bought from spell masters. But they required alot of magicka, which is hard to obtain from a bad leveling system. So spell making allowed players to "create" less powerfull versions of each spell to tailor to a persons magicka count. And since the world is leveled to you, it seems powerfull. people forget that.

Secondly it would not work directly with how skyrim preforms each spell. In oblivion spells were on the trigger button, that casted one spell, so casting multiple spells relied alot on the D-pad. Even with that mages still had to hold a sword and shield for protection. Being a pure mage didnt look and feel right. Skyrim does push it further, with the dual weilding system you hold 2 spells in each hand, be it 2 different class spells or same spells. they can also be mixed (which is like spell making but to a lesser extent) With this system it allowed pure mages to effectivly be 100% magic.

third is the graphic and execution. almost every spell has a unique animation tailored to it. The crack of thunder from soul trap, the swirling snow from blizzard, the chain lightning from...lightning!. The graphics are fancy and are a deffinitive step up from oblivions balls of exploding dust. That said letting players mix spells graphically would be data consuming and each combination should have a different effect ( i know some people may say graphics dont matter, which they are right. But its 2012, i expect more than 7yr old decal). Execution, with the new talent system, they made it so spells no longer level to the player so they would have to expend points into the trees to make them stronger. But since this is a new system it didnt exactly come out the way players wanted. even so without scaling making spells would be pointless, because the next level spell would out-class the previous, and if you made a spell based on class you would only get a certain number available to that class.

Now i may sound like a [censored] for saying SPELL MAKING is rightfully taken out, but i agree with everybody that the amount of spells should be higher
Not every spell though, Giving alchemy the attribute spells is fair cuz alchemy really did nothing in OB but poisons and feather pots.

What should have been done was to include spells in the talent trees as you progress, for example once you reach lets say 40 from alteration, you gain the open easy lock spell. (after playing the demo for kingdoms of amalur: Reckoning i believe spell unlocking should have a mini game in skyrim, makes it fair to the rogues) or More summoning spells from the conjuration tree, and ward spells from restoration. then again buying the spells would require that level (40 or somthin) but only recieve novice from the tree, and able to buy or learn/train on higher classes of those spells. After all you ARE learning how to control magic as you fiddle with it

I have no doubt that more spells will be added via DLC with other larger content, But until then im not as mad from the vanilla game spells, after all mages are actually a pure class viable to do anything without the use of a weapon. But in the next TES game i can see spell making return with a much refined system that includes the combined systems from skyrim and oblivion and morrowind.

and yes if spelling is off, its due to lack of sleep and trolling forums myself, cant be helped.

nah i just want a light spell i can turn off, a projectile/touch invisibility spell for followers and some combinations of wards and cloak spells. U can already smith/enchant game breaking weapons why care if someone else wants to do that with spells anyway. It could always dare i say it, be balenced or be nerfed, as u get to fiddle more and more the power could drop and magic consumption rise.

i miss on touch spells i loved sneaking up to some one laying my hand on them and draining all there hp. Bethesda bring out dlc to drive the thalmor out of skyrim then bring back spell making and just make up that the thalmor banned the advancment of the magical arts without there consent. ez. make it like enchanting, you highlight your effects(add more plz, well just add them back actully) select cast type(id have all these types if it was me, touch, sheild/cloak, gout, rune, projectile, aoe projectile, massive centered aoe), then a bar to adjust magic consumption in conparrison to power/duration.
That would hardly be mind bending, as before in dev we were told no spell making cus magic rocks and u can cast 1 spell in multiways and combine certain ones! shame they stripped all that back because it left them with 3 spells in each school lol. Anyway now spells do what they say on the tome lets have spell making back.

The only reason I could possibly see why spell making couldn't be put back in is because of -%cost reduction perks/enchantments.

I really wish it was in. Would actually like to have flamethrower spells and runes I could use later in the game. -% cost reduction was a bad idea imo. Magicka costs wouldn't need to be as high and "real" perks could be added to the trees. I kind of like how Illusion has perks that increase the effectiveness of the calm, frenzy, etc... spells. You get a spell that seems to have a limiting cap on what is affected, but with perks and dual casting you can affect enemies of much higher levels. Would be nice for something like that in destruction (besides the 25/50% elemental damage perks). So you could still use lower level spells at high levels with the perks. Why not put in a low level blizzard spell that gets stronger with perks, or cloak spell, or aoe spell?

I've been playing them for over 10 years now.I would rather the new ones just stoped svcking.

I hope they won't bring it back, but maybe add some new cool spells

Yeah i dont like it, they shoudl have stuck with the original idea of having spells grow with the user. example at lvl 10 calms spells do:
calm on touch: upto lvl 15
calm gout: upto lvl 12
calm projectile: upto lvl 10
calm small aoe projectile: upto lvl 8
calm large centered eoa: upto lvl 5
This way as you level you always can cast how you like, the smaller the effective area the more concebtrated the spell. makes sence. would mean more spells. also all spells should be able to be duel cast as long as there are both the same format. how hard would it have been to create a speical filter for when you cast two different spells together, they shoudk have just overlayed the two designs, things like lightneing and fear would look epic as a single ball in your hands. oh well savagly missed opertunity, all the world designers and dungeon builders did a grand job, which ever teams did perks/skills, magic and crafting failed imo.

OH BETH if you add spell making back in try not to make the crafting station look like something out of the childs fantasy colouring book, seriously how crap does the equiptment look, its so [censored], i was heavily disappointed there was almost no varity in them and to either have your house full of cobwebs or packed with overly strange magicie stuff.
Im sure lots of ppl like the tables but why oh why beth the bases you build for them have storage for the [censored] you use in them. seriously some simple things were missed out on.

OMG. So you base your theory on the gamepad ? That's giving 10 points to the "consolization"/consoles fault arguments.

then you talk about spells unlockable in the perk tree (if I understood correctly ?) ??!!

Do you wish to turn this franchise into a hack'n'slash with abilities in trees etc like in diablo or WoW ?

I can't ever go with that.

Spell Making being removed makes the mage class useless.

What mage worth their mana can't make their own spells?

i never went into detail about the gamepad...its the better option from what we got as a mage char though in oblivion it was used to switch everyspell thats 8 spells for 1 button maby less if you include weapon, torch, shield etc. The skyrim quick menu would be perfect if left right and up/down were quick swaps between 6 diff combinations and up/down were the quick drop menu, but its not.

spells unlockable in the tree as said before, is because of learning to use your skills. Do you not learn decapitation as you level a sword? or zoom with bows? backstabs with daggers? spells dont have that, they just have magicka decrease consumption or dmg increases and a stagger, which is not how true skills learn. To put it plainly if I were to summon that familar wolf for 10 days straight, i think by then id be able to summon sonthing else than a wolf regardless of going to a master

This franchise has always been a hack and slash with added RPG elements thrown in. those elements are simply becoming less spreadsheety and more realistic. no more random misses cuz skill is too low. Thats a reason why attributes are hidden, they held no significance other than showin you what stat was increasing as you lvl, the perk system allowes for dynamic control of "learning" as you play rather than throwing it all at you at once.

dont believe me? Rage is an FPS with RPG mechanics, Boarderlands is an FPS with RPG mehcanics, Mss effect is a third person shooter with RPG mechanics. Its not a symptom of consoleitus, its the fact that the game is evolving as it should. people want this series to be a third person table top game, which dosent work in a realtime situation. Yes i know speech should be more fleshed out, Yes i know that quests are dull since oblivion, i know what people want this game to be. But its not how it should be. It should be a realistic fantasy action adventure with RPG mechanics added.

even "true" RPGs like the Final fantasy series, or Tales of series, or Star Ocean series have the level of depth the TES series has. Its becuase people expect to everything and have high hopes and get let down when they realize that not everything is possible

So long we can bind them all, yeah why not...