good luck
(not offensive, just realistic)

NO

...and Skyrim's casting and leveling system is different. Not all enemies are leveled and stuff like buying/selling/lockpicking level you which levels enemies at a quicker rate than your chosen skills [could you chose them] level your offensive ability.


Not everybody has a d-pad and PS3's pad is better so not even all console users have d-pad issues. Even without "nuke-level" spells, a pure mage was possible because there were multiple tactics available via spellmaking. It isn't even about getting more and bigger. I'd like to make destruction spells with a smaller radius too. That way I can avoid friendly fire... and fines.



How should I say this?

For a mage, having pretty spells that svck is like finding a hot chick with herpes. Sure they look good, but messing with them is bad for your health.



What should of been done is for Bethesda to not have gutted magic and royally screw up the whole thing for visual effects.

...And what should be done now is for Bethesda to do what Coca-Cola did a few months after releasing New Coke, reintroduce Classic Coke and say that was the plan all along. Everybody knew they were full of BS, everybody knew they screwed up, but the important thing was that a bad move was undone. So bring back the missing spells and spellmaking, just get it over with Bethesda. So what if additional spell effects will have to piggy-back on the primary spell's visual effect, big deal... it was the same in Oblivion. It is for the greater good, to make Mages fun again.

...because Mages are not fun right now.

the very same mage thats never heard of sheogorath apparently

seriously that was uber bummer during that quest

Id have to say Spell making is one of the things i want them to add the most but once the creation kit comes out i can add spells as i see fit.

if your master enchanter and alchmist you can just stack effects to be master of anything, im not saying its bad its just a little svcky if you cant even get half the effect through actully caseing and learning your own magic, you have to use skills that are out side your rp when before they were not.
seriously things like lock pick need looking at seriously, every character need to lockpick but its a thief skill, why there is no way for warriors to smash open locks, higher stamina required for bettet locks, down side, do it to a door and alert everyone inside, do it to a box and maybe get less loot because you broke it. As for mages just give back the open lock spells but how about stagger them so they require more training that lock pick. Oh and change lock to nv type, skill required to attemp lock, its rediculous on both sides of the skill; that you can unlock any lock from the get go, bypassing the point of the skill and most of its perks and that with this system it means when you do just have a go on a master lock as a novice picks snap as if you breathed on them...?! i think youd just fail to pick it not start snapping 20 picks just pokeing around in there?! whats the hells in locks in tes some kind of angry metal eating pirranha you need to stroke just the right way other wise bamb he bites another pick in half. I know it makes little difference but if they just bent or other wise became misshapen it would be better.
oh well maybe our character like brittle pig iron lock picks.
Not that it matter when every one has one in there pocket.

Remember using a long time to try to make a spell in Morrowind who summoned an scamp, then killed and soultrapped it in one cast. No it was not possible.

Remember researching stacked weakness spells on scamps in Oblivion, yes it was actual research where I took notes, used weak damage effects to get good measurements on how elemental damage+ magic weaness+ elemental weakness worked in an single spell, multiple spells was more effective and way better against groups but the single version was more useful actual combat where you had to take down an charging clanfear. Part of the fun was helpful mages who attacked the scamp so I had to find a isolated place to test.
And yes an light effect who timed out two seconds before weakness or mind controll was smart.

Also made lots of utility spells, invisibility on touch was actually very useful multiple times in Morrowind. The constant effect summon fire elemental ring in Morrowind was useless, it tagged behind me and casted fireball on the enemy then I was in line of fire.

exactly what i was pointing too, oblivion its easy to become OP because nothing gives a challenge, At least with skyrim a novice spell will never take down a master vampire. Thats the way it should be



read my post before this one, i explain why the D-pad was/is slightly better than the current systems. PC users are the ones who hate the new system. with a little tweaking its better than a radius menu.
The friendly fire and guard system is flawed that way, not spells. you should be able to choose FF off or on, that includes civilians. I hate not being able to use Storm call in a city because it kills people too.

As for tactics Via spell making? not really, as stated you could only mix certain spells or make lesser verisons of another spell for mana use. As for attribute spells, they are potions now, freeing up the need to use the new system to cast a 15% inc to fire, not a big deal


except they dont svck. the issue with scaling is only apparent @ higher levels 40+ and thats only destruction, there are 90 spells in total that each have unique effects, they arent lacking in quality but quantity



except they never gutted it, they changed alot of stuff, removed some spells and moved others to a new category, but never gutted it. as i said the true problem is trees and amount of spells. Not spell making or flashy graphics. Spells like weakness to X is now in potions, walking on water is not needed in skyrim, there is no durability so disintegrate x is not needed, dmg magicka/fatigue/burning dmg were added to the 3 classes of spells. dmg attribute are potions now, invisiibility/feather is in potions, shields are wards and so on.

things that should be added like, open lock, more summon x, night-eye, silence... and thats pretty much it. The level of the spells should scale, thats the only prob. other than that they are fine. playing on my mage i have tons of fun, just as much as my rogue.

Actually no, not everyone needs to pick locks. Try to play without opening locks or only very easy ones (Novice and the like) and you'll see.

I would actually love to see spellmaking back.

Did people really make good use of spellmaking in Oblivion?

I tried it once but it only seemed to be about fiddling with the numbers for area effect, duration and amount of damage. The spells you created were otherwise the identical to the regular ones. It just didn't seem very appealing unless you're the sort who likes juggling with numbers.

Ohhh..... you're playing a rogue. I see. But, I'm taking about playing a MAGE. A MAGE that should have a spell to unlock a chest instead of using a lockpick because he is not a ROGUE. Nor should he need Alchemy and weapons to inflict weaknesses because he is a MAGE.

A MAGE that can't make spells.


A MAGE that can enchant items that give damage bonuses for everybody else, but not for himself.

Even if you never played as a mage, there was a huge benefit from spellmaking and more spells in general in previous games: Enemy variety.
In Skyrim, you know exactly what to expect when you meet an Adept Necromage or whatever they are called. Meeting a mage in Morrowind was always new and challenging, because you didn't know what he was going to use.

It doesn't matter what "spells" anyone uses or what enemy you fight. They could have 1,000 more enemy types - however since the AI is so dismal and combat so shallow, I use the same tactic for everything I fight. The majority of the time, it isn't even a contest as I get the drop on my enemies killing them instantly, or fight them as they flail around in their chair or what not without being able to fight back. If things get too hairy, oops, just pause the game and spam potions or turn around and sprint as enemies can never catch me. What's that? A 2 inch ledge? Oh better step off that and destroy the pathing forcing the stupid AI to run 2 miles around to get to me.

Ranged: Line of Sight - attack - line of sight - attack - repeat until dead.
Melee: Stagger - swing - stagger - swing - stagger - repeat until dead. (*You might also have to "back pedal or strafe a little to dodge too boy howdy that is hard to do!)

And they could have it be real, immersive, RP? spell-making.... where your mage has to spend two years cloistered in his lab & library doing research/etc to make that new spell!

-------
I find it interesting that the forums are full of "crafting is overpowered!" threads, but people want to bring back spellcrafting.... when it seems that what's missed by many is the ability to craft overpowered spells. Amusing contrast.

Don't you think your opinion is sort of ironic, given how shallow spellmaking was? Sure, you could make any spell you wanted- which in turn made any situation in the game useless. That made everything kind of pointless, didn't it?

I think they took spellmaking out because of that. Also, they didn't want people to mimic shouts via spellmaking and avoid what they consider to be a huge game mechanic and something they worked for years to create. It's the same reason they took spells for locks out- you want to open a lock, you have to take lockpicking.

You may not like it, but there are valid reasons for not having it in the game. It creates more challenge to be limited to x amount of damage. In a game where almost everyone is complaining that it's dumbed down and easy, where is the fun in making spells that have even MORE damage?

Yes the default spells was cheaper, however they lacked utility. if you used spells as part of melee combat you might want a spell who did fire damage on target for 4 seconds, or perhaps an weakness to shock to go with your shock enchant, add soul trap as it's cheap and often useful. I want on target as I cast this spell then disengaged from enemy.
A low level long time restore health spell was nice on followers, Oblivion had lots of spells but large gaping holes in the system, including none high level mind control spells.

Oblivion system was easy to use, you could cast in combat, and quickly change spells applying multiple effects on the enemy, however this is not an issue in Skyrim, but changing from transmute to heal without putting away your weapon would be nice, system with changing effect is so unreliable I can not cast in combat.
And yes it's nice to see who effect is active.

As for scaling it was ok that casting cost went down in Oblivion as it has a lot of spells and spellmaking, Skyrim has few spells and flames and fireball has different uses, it's also nice to have an cheap flamethrower against weaker enemies, at high level it might do 25 damage/ second. For now everybody just use flames the incarnate.

never used alchemy in Oblivion? My favorite as an mage was the restore health and magic over time potion. You could also add an shield effect.

Not disagreeing with the unlock at higher skills, this was done in Oblivion. Also in Skyrim you can not buy high level spells with no skill. however might be better to use perks. Do not see the point of an mini game and you can not have it in combat.
And yes mods with better spells already exists and they will be significantly increased once the CK is out, however using an external tool to modify spells takes some of the magic out of magic.

No I dont think its ironic.
Spellmaking was a flagship feature of TES. Without it Arena would have been a mere thirteen a dozen dungeon crawler and there would never have been a Daggerfall.
The freedom it provided ensured the game had a long shelflife, as it allowed for vastly differing playthroughs.
Half of the fun it provided was in figuring out what worked, finding good combinations.
I dont care about 'balance' so much that I want it told from upon-high that I cannot do this or that as it 'unbalances' my game, Ive never heard of such tripe.
Since when did being guided down a narrow path where everything is restricted become more desirable than the option to use everything in the game world as you see fit?
Since when did taking out options that allow differing builds and playstyles, such as the lockpicking spell, become a bad thing?
I shall never understand the people that applaud a poorer game.

Sorry, I strongly disagree. For me, you can conjoure a wolf x1000 times, it can mean you'll be able to cast it faster or for less mana but that doesn't give you the knowledge to call a demon automatically. You should read tomes to learn about it, or meet a mage that knows about it. It is way more logical this way.
The way with unlocking spells via perks is just a simplificatio nfor hack and slash games like diablo were it doesn't matter how, but where you should just feel more and more powerful as you hack and slash away.
Of course I would love that some spells should not be castable until you have enough mastery of your element, even if you know the spell. You should even be able to try it but it should fumble if you're not skilled enough. This reminds me of the good old Ultima online.


I don't dislike the perks system, but I don't understand why you're so afraid of attributes ? You had problems with numbers as a kid maybe ? How is it more realistic to have perks instead of attributes defining your strength, agility, willpower, intelligence and so on ? Can't you handle learning how a game works without a nice tutorial holding your hand over everything ? What about try & see ? What about experimentation ? What about this feeling to have in front of you a complex thing with endless possibility that challenges you to understand all its secrets ?


Nonsense. You just spread out this image of what you want the game to be, without any regard to its legacy of history, or to the opinion of the people who made the TES successful in the first place. You just want this to become a clone of all these games just because "it is the way" ? This is pathetic...



Haha... "true RPG" ? you mean JRPG right ?

But I understand you as a more console-type player (don't take offense, there is none) that is used to play J-RPGs, than a PC player that is used to play D&D style RPGs.

Therefore you plead for mecanics that mimic more J-RPG than occidental RPGs (in the historical sense).

You should know though that a lot of the core fans of bethesda (the ones that made the TES a success) come from the second category rather that Final Fantasy fans.

I think people who tihnk like you are the reason Dragon Age 2 is what it is, compared to Dragon age 1.

I have to agree that spellmaking has never been well integrated into the TES setting. It would be nice if spellcrafting felt like crafting. I'm sad it's gone, but I'll deal for now. Would like it back eventually, in a better form.

no personal insult intended directly at you with the following statement:

to say "i'm over it" opens the floodgates for poor future games. it gives beth an escape. the money is there and people will live with it. depth, option, customization and quality will be gone. that is fact.

a player's input will continue to decline. games will become static, action-oriented scripts.

player manipulation, control and effect will soon be gone.

Spellmaking wasn't a 'flagship' feature of TES. I've never heard anyone on these boards say that spellmaking was why they bought Daggerfall. The open world concept, the lore, the questlines, the factions all contribute to the appeal of this game. There is no one feature above all others that makes the TES series what it is, it's a combination of things.

You want to argue about what options have been taken away without talking about what options were added- dual wielding spells is a game mechanic that may not work with random, unknown spell affects created in spellmaking. Did you take that into consideration? We also got crafting and local town jobs, dragon shouts, perks, a marriage system, and a radiant UI system.

You seem to think that the devs spent all this time taking out options. Maybe you should have thought about all the time it takes to create completely new game mechanics and the size and scope of this game. Development time is limited. Just 'pushing the release date back' isn't going to work if they couldn't figure out a way to make spell creation work within the game world.

As far as I can remember, pretty much every RPG system I've played.

Those are not valid reasons. If it took them years to "create shouts" they should probably look for new jobs. Shouts are nothing more than spells you can charge up. Shouts for that matter are no different than archery as the further you pull your string back, the greater the velocity and time it takes. To say that the current system is not pointless is silly. You have no reason to use any spell besides dual-cast Incenerate. For Conjuration, watch your Dremora wreck everything. There are no interesting game dynamics when it comes to spells. The fact that spells absolutely do not scale either is pitiful. The only way to increase Spell Damage is through consumables via Alchemy. WTF!? It already IS DUMBED DOWN and easy. Spellcrafting, the concept, allows it to be more complex and synergize better. It does not necessarily have to work exactly like past TES games where it was a no brainer to make the most OP spells possible for little effort.

With regard to the other comments in this threads...

I feel the loss of attributes was a boon to the TES series, which has always maintained the theme of improving a skill by using it. I don't miss them. If anything, I'd like it if Health, Magicka, and Stamina worked the same way. Of course, this would require a more polished and in-depth method for improving areas where you are lacking.

I mostly like how spell learning is done now. Practice, and it casts faster and costs less. Study, and you learn new spell effects. The only thing missing is Research, which should allow you to eventually create new spells from previously learned effects.

Player customization will never go away, and I believe that the overreactions of this forum are mostly just Internet Drama?. Bethesda may have made a decision you don't agree with, but they're not stupid, and they know player choice is the foundation of this franchise. Heaven forbid they attempt to innovate a little bit.

Yes, balance is a bit screwed up, but it's always broken in a TES game. Ditto bugs and glitches. It's not an excuse, but you'd think we'd know what to expect by now, and react accordingly.