I agree. I think it's just that people like to complain and are never satisfied. I don't care about any of it though. As long as I still enjoy myself, I'm fine. Let people get worked up over nothing if they want. I dont even pity them anymore.

21 in Nov physically, mentally ranges from 14 to 40.

I think it's down to the fact that devs take community feedback on board. Now that it's common knowledge, most everyone who wants something changed comes to the forums, and as a result we mostly see threads complaining about one thing or another.

Now, don't get me wrong, I think it's fantastic the amount of attention devs pay to their communities, and you know that your feedback will at least be considered, it's just a shame so many of these threads despite having some very valid points, are so negative in tone and negatively opinionated. Then again, people are allowed to have an opinion and some have their heart more on their sleeve than others, so there needs to be a little less spiky responses from 'defenders' as well.

In all honesty, I think suggestions/changes to the game topics should have it's own subforum, cause it is somewhat of a downer to go into 'general discussion' and see 'terrible' this, 'buggy' that, 'skyrim fails' and so on and so on. Like I said, everyones entitled to an opinion, and to put it forward and debate it, but maybe keep a closer eye on use of language hmmm?

This gaming generation is very spoiled. Hold my hand please. Don't leave me alone in this great big Skyrim world. Tell me what I'm suppose to be thinking...

This gaming generation has discovered that you can get attention drawn to yourself by finding fault with something, anything. It doesn't even have to be true. This gives false popularity.

Trolls multiple by throwing water on them and our planet is 3/4's water.

Na, the vast majority are fine, they're silent too which is why you only hear mostly complaints.
But honestly, the complaints represent a minority of Skyrim players.

The whole forum represents a minority... I'm sure the majority of Skyrim purchasers have never even seen these forums ('cept maybe ps3 owners who we can all agree, got royally shafted).

The majority are busy playing and being happily immersed in the world.

Couldn't agree more. Problem appears when devs decide to change something and fan boys flip out because they can't adjust. It's the same with everything, add a bit of spice in it and it's not good anymore. Same happened with Final Fantasy. After VII (or for some IX or X) the game went "downhill". I personally do admit I hated Oblivion for most of the aspects, but Skyrim was very refreshing and I love the game. Sure, it ain't a novel, but it's huge, fun and takes a lot of my free time- and what else would I need?

Imagination in games should help you deal with dodgy old graphics, isometric viewpoints, turn based combat, text based interaction, and sllloooowwwness. It shouldn't have to help you deal with a story you think is weakly written, a faction that you feel hasn't challenged you in your rise to leadership, or the feeling that a game doesn't present you with consequences for your actions. Merely my opinion, of course.

Your opinion differs from mine. This means we must now fight. To the DEATH!

jello wrestling?

*grabs popcorn*

For me it was after VII but VII was my first game ever lol, well one with a story behind it as I only did the skirmish on C&C:RA/R. I still enjoyed VIII and XI but X felt meh to me, VII is my all time favourite game but Squall and his gunblade are my all time favourite character and weapon ever lol. Morrowind was my first TES game and I enjoyed Oblivion I understood that it was shallower than MW....I didnt care, still dont.

Flaws are so faint they dont quite exist for me, they're there but I dont care.

Jello wrestling!? JELLO WRESTLING!!?!?!

No sir, I am English. Fish slapping is the only way this will be settled. I favour a nice weighty Scottish Salmon as my piscine weapon of choice, mwahahaha!!!

Theres not enough fish slapping nowadays, my favourite new sport is ride-on lawnmower jousting.

Im being serious, Im a lawnmower jousting champion. My bin lid shield has my avatar painted on it

This happens with all generations. I was born in 1950, and had my entire generation relegated to "useless, smelly, lazy, dope-fiend, free love". Never mind I was in the military, got a degree after the war, worked my tail off; that just led to me being a "baby killer." Trust me, it never changes, and after a while you'll be talking about "these kids today" with disdain and resignation for our horrible future if left in their hands.

Certainly livens up lawn mowing duties lol. Btw you echoed my sentiments on final fantasy exactly. 7 and 8 were the pinnacle for me too. 10 was good, but the start of the decline for me too...

Only FF mods I would like to see are a proper functioning Miqo'te race from FF14 and a gunblade or 2 (gun bit doesnt need to work lol)

My friends parents own an estate with a few acres lol, its nice and square allowing for lots lanes. Best day was when I knock him, his sister and his dad of the mower lol

English (well half) too, but also veggie. I therefore challenge you, sir, to chillies at dawn. The winner may complain that chillies were hotter back in the good old days, or argue that today's recipes and the general public's increased knowledge of cooking have improved our enjoyment of, and added colour to, spicy food, as they wish.

Developers have to take the share of responsibility as far as people "forgetting how to play", The more they cater to the wider audience the more they have to make their games accessible & easier to play.
Hence handholding, railroading or whatever you want to call it becomes part of the norm & people get used to it, That's what you get for trying to appease everybody.
Bethesda are guilty of this, As are so many of the modern game developers, They share the responsibily of creating the culture as it stands now.

It's so easy to blame the complainers & bash them for their limited imaginations & inability to move on or adapt in the climate of modern gaming, However some of us don't need to be held by the hand & obnoxiously pointed in the direction of a quest & would rather work harder to play the game ourselves using our skill & ability, However when people state these opinions on this forum they are immediately branded as neanderthals & are marched upon by pitchfork wielding apologists.

We are all to blame for forgetting how to play, The use of imagination is fine to enrich a gaming experience but it's no good when it's used to paper over the cracks, The developers have to meet us in the middle.

I have a hard time finding a more in depth world and lore in any series of games. Maybe you can and I'd love to know what the games are because for me the lore and the story is the part that attracts me to this game. It's not like a movie where the story is linear and demands you rush through it. It's better then that with so much information fed to you at the speed you decide to eat it.

There is whining and then there is constructive criticism. The writing svcks is whining. A request for more quest branches and completion options is constructive criticism.

I love Skyrim. Been playing for six months and still haven't done the MQ. I also have not hesitated to criticize - hopefully in a constructive fashion. I do "mental role play" quite a bit and there is not doubt that is a major reason why I enjoy Skyrim. I can see the issues for those who have difficulty with this and want it all laid out. My ideal would be the best of both - better fleshed out NPCs and story lines inside of the big sandbox that is Skyrim. However, if Bethesda isn't going to flesh out the story I don't object too much to doing it in my head.

This is how it was for me with the FF series too. I hated 13. I got it to give it a try and I just hated the battle system. None of the game play was fun to me and the story and world too linear. Thats when I found TES series. It was exactly what I was looking for and I've only played Oblivion and Skyrim. I plan to play all of them though.

Ive been gone from these pages for quite some time because of that.
Its still here now,but at least its a lot less worse then it was after release.

And as ive stated in other topics before,
lately gamers have become so spoiled,we tend to go and misinterpret an Open World RPG as 'a Perfect Game World where everything I want exists in the way I want it to be or i brand it a bad game'.

Its like that Queen song:
"I want it ALL and i want it NOW"
wich has become the general consensus as of late.

I quite liked FF13, only thing I truely hated like I hate the Altmer(Thalmor) is Vanile's(sp) voice actor....its way too squeaky and high pitched

That's a weird concept forgetting how to have fun.
A lot of video games are not designed to be fun, they are designed to be addictive. Keep grinding, searching for ultra-rare items. Keeping people playing so they pay into a subscription so the game makers have a constant revenue stream rather than big investment on one game with money coming in just from the copies sold, this is where DLC is starting to come in to be a nasty business so they can gain bigger microtransaction cash and DLC's start being developed along with the games that come out rather than releasing new content later on that they might not of had development time for before they had to ship the game which DLC was designed for.

Then there are games that are just meant to be competetive, I like those types of games part of the reason I got into gaming when I was younger was because it was one of the very few activities I could play with my older (and significantly bigger) brothers without getting into a scrap with them (that I had no chance of winning) and I could show them up at gaming. The culture of the players on competetive games is kinda rediculous being a jerk is something people think is the rule rather than the exception, so when you play these games you can't reasonably expect to have fun rather than someone just trying to be rude to you just for the sake of it.

Then I think there are games like Bethesda makes. Skyrim gets a lot of complaints because one pitfall is just by being an RPG, there are not many RPG titles out there. Even though there is a market for it, and a lot of the older players like something a little more.. let's call it 'spread sheety' which Skyrim along with the rest of the series has been moving away from. Some people just legitimately like that kind of stuff even though it sounds unappealing when its described.

It seems many have forgotten to how to play, when you put it like that. And if it is wrong to be entertained my Skyrim I have the same mental issue as you do.

Excellent post.

In terms of the OP, I think there's a lot of truth of what you're saying. I tend to feel something similar whenever I see terms like "the game is broken" or "the devs were lazy".

I'm a teacher, and in the last few years at my institution there's been quite a marked change in the way student's feed back to us about our courses (not just mine, I hasten to add) - they tend to be far less understanding about time constraints, the need to cater to a range of students, the fact that sometimes we can't do everything enjoyable and some graft is needed, and above all, sometimes mistakes can happen. Instead, there's very much a sense of "I wanted this, it didn't happen, therefore it's the worst thing ever."

Now, obviously teaching isn't the same as making computer games. But I think there is something about the manner of complaints that is more of a cultural thing. And the real problem is, this kind of complaint often obscures the more constructive and necessary criticisms that will make the next TES better.