Thanks, the NPC mounting will be available in later releases as I hope to include it with the http://www.moddb.com/mods/merp-middle-earth-roleplaying-project project.
Currently, this mod needs a lot of polishing, especially the control scheme. As riding a horse in Skyrim is much different compared to M&B (controls, cam angles, etc...), and well, I just played M&B few days ago - long after I started this project . And I hope SKSE will provide a better, easy-to-use key mapping over ScriptDragon.



I can make my new animations available to use as resources. But I doubt it will do any good since it's mounting-spear-thrust animation.



Oh ya, you will find out eventually. behavior is just a small part, mostly for new animations. Target/aiming-system, hit-detect system, rotation angle, control scheme, armor piecing system, and most important - Perk.... are all Papyrus. It's been a nightmare putting them all together.

Apparently, I will have a beta release, just to test out how it plays on different machine... I can't trust my machine well enough

Just had a look at the updates. Amazing work.

Really no hope to cast illusion perk spells?

Show the path to goal while on horseback.

ok here is what i think
1-Balance- spear weapons could easily balance combat with horseman (like in real world the guy with longer spear wins) an u could make possible to run through enemies lines only with full speed
2-Moves- i saw ur video (ur first video) an i didn't saw any moves from left side of the horse u could change that and i didn't saw thrust either so u should focus on perfecting left side hit right side hit hit from above and thrust ( i saw only above ur head an from ur right side)
3-Bows- apart from swords u could use bows on horse an magic
4-NPC- mounted NPC should be prisoner guards ( u can put prisoner in wagon like in the beginning of game) couriers an patrols that walk around Skyrim ( like when legion members in oblivion that paroled the roads)
5- Horses-i don't know if u can do that but u could add Legion horse for soldiers of legion ( the horse that look like horses in oblivion)
6-Horse armor an weapons- u could add horse armors an make possible to attach weapons to saddle (like u don't have to change from two hand weapon to one hand but u got it equipped on horse back with bow for example )
7-NO TWO HAND WEAPONS ON HORSE BACK- if u made it possible then change it there is no person in this or in skyrim world that can use that weapon on horse back
8-Make hose more expensive so players could play longer on they feet at the beginning
9- Horse Law- horse is a matter of life and death so for stealing a horse should be death penalty (like in wild west)


is any of this ideas appeared before sorry for not reading all content of the subject

Ya, there are few mods already address the cost/armor issues. I couldn't remember the mod, but you can actually put armors on horses, and make them cost effective.

I have hit a big snag (well, few big ones )

1. The weapon reach. As in vanilla, most one-handed weapon has reach of 1.0, and it makes quite hard to hit the enemies from horse back. If the target is standing just below the horse's ground level, player can't hit it at all. If I have spear with reach of 1.5, well, it's different story. I hope there is a way to actually extends the weapon's reach dynamically without changing every weapon in the game .

2. The existing 3rd person combat: This one is a pain too. In 3rd person mode, your target will be picked automatically without the need of the crosshair. As long as the target is right in front, you can hit it. Even if its a chicken standing before your feet and you are aiming way above its head.

This potentially messes up the whole combat system, as you won't know what target the game picks for you when you strike. Probably the game will pick the one closest to you, in this case, your horse . Giving the 'sweep' perk of 2-handed kinda negate the problem at a time, but again, you won't know which target is picked to 'sweep' attack from. Sometimes it's in the front, other times, its from the left side while you actually attacks on the right.....

Trying to solve these issues alone is really frustrating I really want to release it soon for everyone, but not in this unrefined state

This mod is looking great. I am thrilled someone took on that task of mounted. Great work! Keep it up!

NICE! Looks just like the http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=DGIgXeGC6Dg#t=205s footage. Yeah polish that gold nugget all you need to. And i hope you can impliment bow and magic combat as well. That way i can ride the fields of Whiterun and shoot dragons out of the sky while on horse back.

Also would this be compatible with horse mods like http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=10579?

Note: I haven't looked at the videos yet, though the project seems quite cool.

I think that SKSE will be able to help with the first problem (somewhat at least). I can add functions to modify the range of a Weapon. There are the usual downsides you get with this. The range is part of the Base Form, so changing it will affect all instances of that weapon in the game. So change an Iron Sword's reach from 1 to 2 and everyone will benefit from the extra reach while the change is in effect.

In previous games we've managed this through another function to CloneForm and create an exact duplicate of the currently equipped weapon. You then swap that weapon for the user's weapon while on horseback. The clone's reach gets modified, but not the original. But then you have to deal with the complexity of swapping the weapon in and out for the user, what happens when weapons are changed, dealing with keeping track of weapon charge for the swapped weapon, managing weight issues with the extra weapon in place. It can be done - but it is complex. It may just be easier to deal with the slight reach enhancement for the type, but you still have to keep track when weapons change and when the character dismounts. Pick your poison.

I saw these horse fight reenactment videos in YouTube and thought that you might find these useful

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyrjTHtcGmc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEyU1On1QZk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzC3iQrse8Q

Hey Rongphale; I come from the Nexus and I've been contacting you through YT eager to participate with ideas on this mod. Knowing that you're really busy and have your hands full at the moment, I signed up here just to watch your thread. I hope I can be of more help (if at all) in this forum.

Well; first of all and once again, your mod amazes us. Really; it is really exciting to see such dedication and participation from so many modders like you. It's inspiring....
I'll try to be helpful in the only way I can; with ideas.

The reason why I was hesitant to implement spells because... they make player very, VERY overpowered. If I could come up with some balance, then I would love to include 'arcane mounted' in the mod

I tried to come up with a practical friendly solution that wouldn't consume so much time and effort in its design. (relatively, none at all)
Mages cast spells by concentrating their innate abilities to bend the very core of matter and energy right? Usually, mages do need to concentrate to cast even the weakest of spells. Wouldn't be hard to concentrate in order to cast a spell while galloping at full or medium speed? Of course it would, right? Perhaps you could implement the use of arcane skills by making it only possible when the horse is jogging and not running.
You mentioned also that the use of magic while mounted would leave space for the "hit and run" type of play. Well; once again, since concentration while mounted is more difficult and needs so much more effort, how about decreasing the rate at which magicka regenerates? Perhaps cutting a big chunk of the percentage would balance this. How about 35%, 50%,65%??? And of course; you could always add a perk or two to make this handicap a little less painful.

The weapon reach. As in vanilla, most one-handed weapon has reach of 1.0, and it makes quite hard to hit the enemies from horse back. If the target is standing just below the horse's ground level, player can't hit it at all. If I have spear with reach of 1.5, well, it's different story. I hope there is a way to actually extends the weapon's reach dynamically without changing every weapon in the game.

I personally have no experience whatsoever in modding; I've tried and failed several times until I gave up . So the only solutions I can give away are practical ones. With that being said (again).....

Thinking over about this problem I came up with an idea. What if you were to make mounted combat weapons restricted?? I'll try to explain so it doesn't (hopefully) sound so silly .
If you or a member of the MERP team were to create different weapon models; war axe, one handed sword, mace, bow, dagger, etc. specifically for mounted combat??? You could manipulate the weapons' reach to whatever number necessary. This of course would leave out the majority of the weapons in the game and the vast amount that will become available in the future. But let's be honest, not every weapon was made thinking about fighting on horseback.... these ones on the other hand (the models with modified/extended range) are.
Perhaps you can even "clone" vanilla weapon models and modify them to your/the mod's needs.


The existing 3rd person combat: This one is a pain too. In 3rd person mode, your target will be picked automatically without the need of the crosshair. As long as the target is right in front, you can hit it. Even if its a chicken standing before your feet and you are aiming way above its head. This potentially messes up the whole combat system, as you won't know what target the game picks for you when you strike.
Once again, I know nothing about scripting or modding at all.
Isn't there a way you could "target" the enemy that your next attack would hit? Perhaps with a hovering arrow, light transparent red body glow or some other time of target indicator.

Probably the game will pick the one closest to you, in this case, your horse.

And if you were to add some type of limitation range script or behavior for the attacks? For example; "if the distance between you and the enemy is greater than"?? Or some time of behavior file that forces you to hit the second closest actor in the combat??? This is tricky .


Trying to solve these issues alone is really frustrating I really want to release it soon for everyone, but not in this unrefined state.

Take your time bro; no matter how much we are in need or how excited we are. It would not be worth it if YOU are not happy with its state. If it isn't complete or ready for a beta release, don't release it. We can wait. Just keep at it and you'll eventually find a solution . Breathe deep and follow your pace, not the players'.


Great work bro; really.

Thanks Behippo for the heads up. I was hoping Papyrus's Reference Alias could solve this problem of 'clone' weapon for me. From what I read on the wiki, ReferenceAlias works quite independently to the Form-baseID, as it clears all scripts/state/magic effect, etc... when its owning quest terminates. So attempt to setReach on weapon ReferenceAlias 'may' not affect the base Form. Although this is a big 'may' . If it does not work, I will have to resort to the old fashion way like you suggested. Although very painful to carry out

EDIT: I miss-read your post. If setReach is a part of a base Form, then well, ... I gotta find another way then

@everyone: Thank you so much for the suggestions. With the help of SKSE (big thank to Behippo and SKSE team ), I could sort out the control scheme for this mod, and I wish to go ahead with a close beta test sometimes this weekends & early next week. when SKSE is in open beta. There are still a lot of bugs & unpolished features, but if anyone interests in beta-testing the mod, please pm me . Thank you

I am troubleshooting some of my mod issues at the moment.
I would be interested in using the beta as a part of my ongoing play, but probably not as a dedicated player, because that would involve putting it through some serious paces - civil war quest, main quest, vampirism, etc. etc. and I haven't started any of those and not likely to in the next few weeks.

I am anxiously awaiting this game changing mod

Great work!!

One note rongphale - if you are depending on the current SKSE closed beta for your changes (as you seem to imply above) your beta will need to wait until we get SKSE in an open beta. Otherwise folks won't be able to get at the functionality you are using.

@behippo: Sorry, I forgot about that. I updated my post accordingly

@shalani: Awesome, I will pm you when the time comes

I'd also like (if possible) to be a beta tester.

Any news?

Firstly, I think this is an awesome mod, so much so that I decided to make an account to post. I can't wait to get this on my computer, it will make playing the game so much more entertaining and awesome.

But, as I read through the comments and updates on the progress, something started to stick out at me. The "balancing" that you (rongphale) have been worrying about. I have read through what everyone has suggested and what you have changed. But, before much else was done, I just wanted to weigh in with my two cents. I am just so excited, with how well done this mod looks as well as all the work you are continuing to put into it, that I just couldn't stay quiet.

I watched your videos, and I have played all of the Mount & Blade games (and for legitimacy's sake, I have got a lvl50 Skyrim character, among others). Your mod is very much like M&B, and I love it. However, horseback combat was never supposed to be 'balanced'. Horses were used to gain a 1up on your enemies. Enemies can't fight you when there is a big powerful beast running them over. In real life, even just a few hundred cavalry would make the difference in a large scale battle (of thousands) because of their destructive and "overpowered" capabilities. (This is also the case in M&B, the reason I win battles of 500 to my 100 is because I had all cavalry, and they had 15)
I am not trying to say, make them do tons of damage and be invincible. But just be realistic with your balancing. A person on horseback should be able to fight.... say 3-5 people... while a person on foot would be outmatched by 2 people. Don't underpower (balance) the power of a horse so much so that it defeats the purpose of having a horse!
Hopefully I don't come across as sounding fanatical, and I certainly have not got much of a say in what you decide to do. But what I hope to accomplish is to remind everyone why having a horse is amazing. Hopefully you will not lose sight of what a horse is for, and what it should be capable of doing. It is my hope that when you release this mod, I will have some epic battles fighting dragons as well as being able to engage groups of bandits without being overwhelmed or staggered into oblivion even though I am on horseback.
I can't wait to put what I've seen in your videos, into my own world! My expectations and anticipation are high!!

Yes, any? I stopped getting emails about it some time ago. Has it stalled?

I hope you're doing fine rongphale . Has thee forsaken thy fine work? We, mere mortal insipid beings long for a new glimpse of heaventh. We wait patiently and stand prepared to ride to the glory of Sovngard on the fearcest of steeds.

I agree. After all, Mongol cavalry managed to defeat larger foes and conquer large swath of territory in Asia and eastern Europe.

There is also the story of Polish "winged cavalry" (hussars) like in the Battle of Klushino
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Klushino

Well the talent of the Mongols was that they could shoot from horseback. Ranged weapons always had the advantage over melee troops, with their one failing being they had to stay in place and be cut down/trampled while in the process of shooting/renotching/reloading. The Mongols circumvented that by being able to have archers on horses providing battlefield mobility the ability to trample unmounted melee troops anyway.

Anyway on-topic, something that occurred to me. While mounted, the horse's health and the rider's health remain separate correct? I've had some instances where I've fallen a great height, but the horse took the brunt of the fall and died while my character could stand up. I've yet to actually see my horse die from attacks on the ground though while I'm mounted, so I wasn't sure if that's possible? Your horse dying from attacks while you're mounted?

Sorry guys, I have been really busy the past weeks, and had no time with this project. You know, real life is a pain sometimes. But this changes (hopefully) and I'm back for modding. I will try my best to push out this mod in closed beta as soon as possible. So far, the only thing really holding me off is the controls. Somewhat still sloppy and slow.

And thank you guys for suggestions about balancing this project. To be honest, I gave it a lot of thought, and I think I made a serious mistake in taking too much time on 'balancing' the mounted combat. Because, there is no real balance for everything. What really counts is 'how much fun' we have as a player, what new experience we should have. Of course, we still don't want it to be ridiculously game-breaking.



yes, they are separated. My horse got killed in combat, and I was sent into ragdol mode, and then standup as usual. During mounted-combat, enemies can choose to attack the horse OR the rider, as they are 2 different entities (or Actors). Although the horse' health & stamina are not shown.

Speaking of mongol, it was really interesting piece of information in the history. Their main strategy was speed, mobility and powerful bows. Focusing on hit-and-run tactic, they could literary kite enemies, separate them, then pick them off one-by-one. The winged-hussar of The Polish relied on speed, thick armor and deadly lance charge. After the charge, they use saber for close-quarter combat. I wonder how they would fare in combat? Probably the mongol would survive as they are faster, and always avoid direct combat unless opponents are really worn-out

Now that I think about it. The best balance for the mounted combat would be to have some NPCs on horseback as well.
The big monsters are sort of self balancing as you can't really knock them over and their attacks still hit really hard. So the real issue is with humanoids. I wouldn't worry too much about wild animals, they're...animals.
But ultimatly instead of taking away from the power of being on a mount, why not just add some power to the oposition?

So the enemy targets a particular actor - the player or the horse - can both actors get hit at once? As in, I'm imagining a giant's club swinging in and catching a mounted player flat in the face as well as the horse. Assuming the player actually survives, does he just go through like nothing happened while receiving damage, or would there be some ragdolling and the player flies off the horse and they separate and get flung around? I haven't actually hit a point I can survive a point-blank giant clubbing while on horseback yet so I wonder what happens.

Mostly I'm wondering if the player can be physically knocked off his horse, or just be 'damaged'. I've only seen the ragdolling when the horse has full-on died.

Also about the mongols vs hussar; it'll be determined by terrain, I think. In their original environment, the Mongols fight on wide, unvegetated or lightly vegetated terrain. This generally favors all forms of horseback combat, but since they relied on always placing a great distance between themselves and the opponents where their bows gave them all the advantage, they would pretty much kill even mounted cavalry before the enemies could reach them, as long as there was room for them to retreat and keep distance.

In a place with more vegetation, or more differences of elevation of the ground, cavalry like the winged-hussar that use melee weapons would potentially have the advantage if the enemies cannot escape to a safe distance due to the environmental obstacles. In close combat, they would win against the mongols with armor and weaponry better suited to 1 on 1 closequarters combat.

So generally, on a flat plain like the sort they live in, the Mongols would probably win, cutting down the winged hussar before they could close the gap, They would be wearing lighter armor and their horses would likely be bred for speed and not like the heavier set warchargers the winged hussar would have to use to bear their heavy armor and weapons. If in a more clustered terrain, the Mongols would not have the area or distance to use their bows and retreat tactics. The moment the winged hussar close the gap, the would win.

Well, this makes me happy. I don't really care about Mongol vs Hussar type tactics, as fascinating as they are. Just so long as rongphale says he has been thinking it over is good enough for me. I look forward to falling in love with this mod.

Glad you are back on the project, hope everything is working out for you in RL. Also, I would also like to submit my candidacy for beta testing if you are willing/offering. I would love to do whatever you want done.