I absolutely agree with this. An introduction would be nice.

I do find RPing easier in Skyrim than in most other RPGs though. A few dense NPCs don't bother me -shrugs-


Guild Wars 2. It's not out yet, and it's an MMO, but it has all of that.

Safer Saviour- how many hours do you have in, if you don't mind me asking?

The question is relevant because when the game is fairly new these issues aren't as pressing. I found with more hours, they became debilitating.

Skyrim was meant to be played like Fallout- enjoyed and put away. It does not have the repeat playability of a Oblivion. The character builds and NPC interaction is simply not enough.

Doubt it. MMO's have level-restricted zones. Sure, you can walk into a level 40 zone when you're level 5, but you're going to get killed very quickly. This is the criticisms against KoA's "open world," leveled zones make the game feel linear in its own way.

kibilko, this may be out of context, but there's a Todd Howard quote where he says graphics are the most important thing. I know they threw out spell making because it introduced too many variables with the graphics. They made the wrong choice. Appearence over substance. They decided enough people wouldn't be playing the game long enough to notice any defficiencies, I guess.

Hey I'm playing TES 6: Elsweyr right now!! Imagination works, I tell you.

200-300 hours or so on the 360, 44 hours on the PC. I got the PC version later.

I wholeheartedly disagree about the character builds not being enough. Skyrim's given me way more flexibility than Oblivion in that regard.


GW2 has a sidekicking system where your health and skills are buffed or debuffed whenever you go into a new 'zone'. Someone who's level 80 might be pushed down to level 8 in a level 5 zone, so they'll have a little advantage, but the devs didn't want people to 'level out' of content and they don't want high-level players to effortlessly slaughter everything in the low-level zones so that newbies have nothing to do. When players are buffed, they won't have the gear and they'll still be taking a risk venturing into a higher zone but they can push through if they're skilled. GW2 is an anti-grind game. Go wherever you want.

MMO's don't count in my book. This is MMO gameplay in a nutshell:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YIj4rLYo0c

Old Grog.. thats a rediculous statement. They envisioned people playing this game for years as they have provided a very robust and fantastic creation kit. Spell making was horribly busted and one day hopefully it will be implimented correctly by Bethesda.

I'd just like to point out that my last post wasn't serious... it was a joke

It's annoying but its something I can ignore. As it is rare in open world games, it actually makes me smile when the NPCs get it right; it's a bonus, not a necessity.

GW2 has no monthly fees, so it has no use for the gear grind, or grind in general. For instance, every dungeon rewards a token that you can exchange for an item you want, rather than being left with a potentially useless drop. Quests have been replaced with a dynamic event system so there's no 'go kill ten centaurs' step for a 'centaurs are attacking the village'... the centaurs will actually attack the village, burn it to the ground, kill all the villagers and setup a base if you leave 'em to it. There's a personality system (charm, dignity, ferocity), a biography creation (backstory) which includes details like social class and what college you went to and NPCs will respond to you accordingly. ^.^

I think those person who can play Skyrim indefinately are a different kind of player than I.

Many people prefer an action adventure game- with a dash of role playing and an open world. It certainly is a great game, it's just not on par with the last two Elder Scrolls games for role playing. We've pointed out assets that make the case for this opinion in this thread. But you really don't need any counter argument. If people love Skyrim they have Skyrim to love. I'm hardly going to argue with that. For me, Skyrim is a disapointment. I have about a dozen hours shy of 500. I tried- three playthroughs. The subtance in the character build is not enough to repeat.

Umm hmm. If there's classes, or levels anywhere in there, you'll be running the proverbial treadmill. Strip the bells, whisltes, and any shiny wrapper away, and look at the core of what the game is, there's a treadmill in there somewhere.

I have some genuine questions and you seem like you might know; so... How many lines of dialogue could actually be given to all the NPCs? There has to be some kind of limit but again, I freely admit to not knowing what I'm talking about on this one. Also, is it possible that dialogue was sacrificed in order to include something(s) that are more important to the game?

Its quite easy to rp,I rp by doing stuff that my character would do, Such as If his ordered to he will kill civilians, but if he isint ordered to he wont kill them.

So by your logic if I go to the costume store and buy a police uniform and walk around in it, instantly everyone who sees me should know who I am, that I am a cop, and that I saved a bank but busting in and shooting the 10 bad guys holding everyone hostage. Because my clothes clearly tell you everything about me right? Just because you are wearing something shouldn't mean everyone should know who you are. Espically if they are use to someone else being the Archmage and now you show up and just because you have clothes that look like his he is suppose to just believe you? Remind me to pull you over so I can make you bride me and not send you to jail while I am wearing my police costume. Because what we wear clearly makes us that profession

My main problem with skyrim is the fact that I can't walk through town without every knob having to stop and tell me exactly what they told me only a few hours ago. Not the fact that people don't know who I am because rightfully I wouldn't expect people to know who I am. Do you know who the manager of your bank is? Or the manager of your favorite grocery store? Do you know about the cop who was shot dead trying to save innocent people? Course you don't, why would we expect a game to break that kind of logic? I see countless people walking around on the roads (of skyrim) in gear as good or better then mine. What makes me stand out above them? Who are those people? Maybe they are killing dragons too but you don't hear of their heroic deeds do you?

Rationalize somethings, Mod others, for the remaining 10% Imagine.

TES games have always been more of a "do what you want" than choice and consequence. Good action adventure sandbox games but bad RPGs in my opinion.

This, i like how you included the random mercanares in ebony and what not

The original GW allowed players to max out at level 20 in under a day. GW2 has a higher cap but still has a flat levelling curve meaning that it never gets 'harder' to gain levels. Since the game automatically scales you up and down per zone, levelling is rather pointless anyway. You go where you want and do what you want, ignoring what you're not interested in. You are never locked out of the open world content. Competitive PvP fixes eveyone's level to match and gives them access to all items and skills.

I would love to see fewer fetch quests in Skyrim, and some kind of personality (but NOT morality) system which influenced how NPCs spoke to you...

As much as the GE2 info is intriguing, this is and elder scrolls forum, unless it relates to topic, please dont say it.

and skyrim will always be about more quests. Its a fantasy, they wont do the fallout thing where there are less big quest lines. It will always be shorter but more quests

If I'm the operator of a shooting range and you come in and I tell you "If you are good with a gun, you should join the police academy" and I see you a week later and you are wearing a cop uniform, I'm not going to suggest you join the police academy.

can't argue that one

I agree with this too. This goes back to NPC's repeating the same line of dialog like that's all they know how to say, vs expecting them to know who I am and what I have done. Two completely different animals in my eyes. One is to expect everyone to know you are a Archmage just based on what you are wearing. The other is to expect them to stop repeating the same stuff over and over, and yes I agree with that. I mean he shouldn't be saying that regardless of what I am wearing, he should say it once and then think up of new stuff to say.

Now I know they can't have 10001 dialog options for every NPC. But to say it once, then just greet me by saying Hello or something isn't that outrageous.

If you have limited availability for dialogue, the solution is to use more generic dialogue that isn't context-specific. When I ask "What do you have for sale?" Instead of replying "I had you figured for a mage" say "Anything a mage would need."

Phrases like "If you have the aptitude, you should join the College in Winterhold" should be used as one-time lines or split into two different lines: If you haven't joined, use the first line, if you have joined say "Learned anything new at the College?"

No, you simply ask them 'Have you tried mercenary work? It might suit you.'

Harr harr