Personally I don't like steam. I much prefer Direct 2 Drive. It serves the same purpose and with D2D I don't HAVE to connect to it EVER aside from the initial download and then to check for updates every so often.

But Direct2Drive does not make their releases very mod friendly. The scripting extender for Oblivion doesn't work for it, same for Fallout 3's, and the total conversion 'The Nameless Mod' for Deus Ex doesn't work on it. There's probably more.

I'm sure they could work something out if they ever decided to use them exclusively. D2D is so user friendly and convenient and has all the bells and whistles Steam has and then some.

I'd say that it hasn't helped the experience at all. I do not enjoy Steam games more than non-Steam games. Steam is just convenient, for the developers. mostly, because it serves as its own DRM and doesn't seem to have as much hate directed at it as Securom right now, anyway. I guess the automatic downloading of patches is kind of convenient for players, but that's hardly enough to justify the other features of Steam. Overall, thins like Steam don't effect the game experience at all, as long as you can ignore their presence, but since you need to sign in to play Steam games, you can't ignore its presence. Sure, signining in is quick and easy, but you still have to do it, it's one more pointless annoyance that I should not have to go through if I choose not to, but I don't get to choose. Which is really what bothers me most, I'd be perfectly fine with Steam, if only the Steam version required Steam, and it was not necessary to use it with the hard copies, but I guess allowing players to choose not to use unnecessary extra software to play the game is old fashioned.

So no, I wouldn't say you've missed anything by not having access to Steam. I would say that playing a console version means you miss out on mods, but you asked what Steam adds to the game, not mods.



I have no use for an in game browser, and I really don't use Steam for chatting anyway. I might have a use for the deals, if it weren't for the fact that any games bought through Steam would be distributed through it as well, meaning no hard copies, which is what I want, but even if I wanted to use said deals, I wouldn't need to have any Steam games installed to use them, so I still gain nothing by New Vegas trying to force Steam on me.'

Where I live, digital downloads are my preference - otherwise I have to wait at least a week longer than most other places in the States to get a brand-new game. My selection of on-island videogame shopping is limited to literally one (very small) Wal-Mart store, with not much of a selection - and even they don't get new releases when they're "supposed" to. Due to shipping complications, even "next day" shipping on things I buy online can also take up to a week to actually arrive at my house.

Steam as anything other than a convenient store has been (in my experience) pretty benign. I haven't noticed any crashes that were caused by the client so far, and I have enough extra RAM at this point that whatever resources it uses to run in the background is negligible to me. I know people have (valid) antipathy towards any program running on their rig without their authorization - but I'm just not one those people who care about that stuff.

I've been buying most of my PC games from Steam since long before NV came out. Even were it not mandatory (and I can see people having a problem with that aspect) I'd still have got on Steam, anyway.

As far as "added value" goes - I don't really see any, particularly. :shrug: It's a free service. Like most anything on the internet these days, it's trying to be XBox Live. I pretty much ignore all that stuff, though.

I guess I just find it convenient. I get why people have issue with it, but it just doesn't bug me in that way. :shrug:

D2D uses encryption. The choice is to unencrypt (which breaks their protection?), or... well.. there is no "or", the alternatives are illegal.


Same.

D2D refused to work with the OBSE team, from what I understand. I doubt I'll ever buy from them if there is another choice.

Wheras Steam devs were quite willing to work with the OBSE/FOSE/NVSE team.

I hear ya! You didn't mention how much that shipping costs us up here but I will add that we pay international shipping rated most of the time. But ND, what kind of internet connection do you have on the Island because a download that size takes me about 24 hours or more. I'm a bit jealous on you islanders having that ability. Satellite?

Modding? I'd rather only play vanilla if I had the choice. Mods are ok but not worth putting Steam on my computer. I sure hope thats not why they went with steam.

I have a satellite connection and it would take me days to download a game like NV.... that is not including the time my bandwidth would be restricted due to downloading more than 1 gig in a day.



EDIT: Oh! I forgot to mention how it is cloudy more often than not here and that messes up downloads making me dl things an equivalent of 4-5 times. I do not even have dial-up as an option here due to really horrible old phone lines.

Steam is convenient for patching (if you have fast internet).
In NV it tracks achievements.
Aside from that there's not that much gain for the player in New Vegas.

All in all it's a mixed blessing though. I quite like it, but I'm skeptical about privacy issues with Steam.
Furthermore there are the old "selling used games" and "what if Steam ever goes offline" debates.
But that's OT and would only lead to flamewars I'm afraid. :shrug:

Modding is one of the main selling points of Bethesda's games on PC, they know that making modding impossible would be like shooting themselves in the leg with the Archimedes

Not at all.

If Steam was just distribution system I would not have problem with it. But it isn't. It is one more useless piece of software on my computer. One you need to install, learn to use, setup. Since you can not run your game without it, it just doubles chance of crashes, bugs and problems. It requires perfect internet connection for single player games which itself requires no connection at all. If you have problem with Steam, you will get no support from people who runs it. You can just hope other users around some forums will be able to help you. It takes away lot of the freedom to use your software. You don't want latest patch because it introduced more bugs than fixes? Bad luck. Once patched, you can do nothing about it.

But thing that I dislike on Steam the most is that it makes you totally dependant on Steam to use your own software. Software which otherwise does not need Steam at all. No Steam -no fun. I don't want to be dependant on any distributor when using my own software.

If Bethesda or Obsidian goes bankrupt, I still can play New Vegas which they created. If Steam goes bankrupt I can throw software I bought in to the bin. And please don't start with things like Steam can not go bankrupt or they promised to do this or that if they do. Its nonsense. Companies all around goes bankrupt and nobody will run Steam servers for free.

You can actually turn off automatic updates for games. But yeah, there is no turning back a bad patch.
I haven't had to deal with Steam support myself, but most people I know who use it have had reasonable to good support.
And you can run in offline mode most of the time. It only requires an online check once in a while. Personally I like this form of DRM better than many others out there.

I get that people don't like that they have to run it, but I just don't see the fuss about that extra step of starting Steam up before I can play the game.
And part of the success of Steam is how it is distribution system, DRM and community in one. They didn't just built those things in to spite those that don't like it and they did not force developers to use it exclusively.


Now you know how a Mac user feels in regards to most games. I'm willing to bet you never gave a damn about that issue and might have even told them to get a non-Apple PC.


They might go bankrupt one day, but unless they've been Greecing up their numbers it doesn't look like that will be anytime soon.

That is not the same thing. You need hardware to run software. So you must get yourself system on which software you want operate. Your software however does not need Steam to function.
It doesn't use Steam to do what it does.


That will not help you much if one day they do go bankrupt. Also they can go down simply as a result of competition. its not just unhonest accounting which brings companies down. You really think that if somebody came up with stem somebody else can not come up with something better?
Bye the way it doesn't need to be bankruptcy which can make Steam unavailable for you. Change of ownership or copyright, lost internet connection, some legal issue. There are many things which can prevent you to receive Steam service, temporarily or permanently.

I don't mind Steam as long as I am not forced to use it myself in order to be able to use third party product. There however is no other way to get NV but Steam. Most of the people who complain about Steam would have no issue with it if they would not need to use it.

Steam is harmless. I don't understand how it can be a "problem because I have to launch it" when it can be set to launch on start up. Steam had issues when it first came out but has been pretty solid since. It keeps your games up to date, provides an in game web browser and chat feature, and very easily allows you to "move" your games from one computer to another (yes, you can simply drag your Steam folder to another HD an your games will work; no need to reinstall). Plus, you never need the disk again. Problem with your game? Verify game files, way faster than reinstalling. Additionally, one you install the game and log in, go into "offline" mode to calm your "big brother" worries.

Not having to dig around for various disks to play/install my games is a great feature, above and beyond anything else Steam has to offer. And Steam is the least obtrusive DRM I have had experience with.

What if they go bankrupt?
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=870603

Oh yeah, I forgot the wonderful shipping rates - digital downloads even make economic sense, up here.

We do have cable on the rock. They charge (pretty exorbitant fees) for tiered bandwidth - what I have means that it does take about a day to download a full game, but most Steam releases let you "pre-load" before the game officially releases. So I usually have the game up and ready to run on the day of release. My internet connection's pretty decent - just don't get me started on the travesty which is our cable television out here...

As far as the whole "what if/when Steam goes out of business?" Again, that's just not something that worries me. Or at least doesn't enough for it to have an affect on my purchases. I don't replay a whole lot of games once I beat them, anyway. If past experience has taught me anything, it's that 10 years from now, I'm going to need to be running a "Windows Box" or something similar if I want to use anything that ran now; that by then I'll probably have lost those discs and need to buy them for cheap somewhere else anyway (which is what ended up happening with me and X-Com.)

I can see why people dislike not having options in this case. It's just that, for me, it's still a non-issue. I can't really complain about being "forced" into something I was going to be doing in the first place...

:whisper: You don't even need to to that. Just start up New Vegas and it will launch Steam for you.

True, however; launching it that way will slow the process of launching the game. That would annoy me more than having it launch at start up. :happy:

Not really. D2D encrypts their exes with no hook for addition. This means that there would never be a NVSE(FOSE/OBSE) compatible with a D2D version of the game without a serious change in D2D's policies. Furthermore, D2D only lets you download your games for a limited time. And that's all kinds of inconvenient.



If you really can't afford the single digit megabytes of HDD space it takes to run the steam client in this day and age, you probably can't play New Vegas anyway. Furthermore, it's a piece of software you can turn off when you're not using it. Compare Securom, TAGES, or Starforce where it's running all the time. Ditto iTunes.



Lolwhut. It requires an internet connection to set up your account. Beyond that, you just set it to offline mode and blam. People say it will have to go online ocassionally, but I've not encountered that myself and can find no evidence of that in Valve's official documentation.



I've found Steam's support to be prompt and effective. Have you actually tried getting in touch with them for a legitimate problem? They're not going to help you with "this game crashes" unless you can show how it's Steam's fault, but if there is a problem with Steam, they'll usually get in touch in short order.



Solution: Tell steam not to update your game until you're sure you want to update.



The thing I dislike about Windows the most is that it makes you totally dependent on Windows to use your own software. Software which otherwise does not need Windows at all. No Windows - no fun. I don't want to be dependent on any OS publisher when using my own software.



The main argument against Valve going bankrupt is that, going by every official announcement, Steam is tremendously profitable for Valve. I've heard the phrase "license to print money" thrown about in interviews, in fact. Which makes sense.

I hate steam because the damn "access steam community while playing" message.

You can disable the Steam Community.

I dont want to do that. I just dont want to see that stupid message that appears every time I start the game...