Then DISABLE IT

I stand by my opinion that Steam is best as an option (more than just Steam & console or Steam Digi-distro & Steam on-disc) the only time it makes sense to me that it's a requirement is when someone gets the game from the SteamStore.

Like another poster, I would gladly pay more for a legit unSteamed PC game Since Steam has proven to be a straight inconvenience (to me at least)

I am not saying totally dump Steam, just realize it's not the best for everyone.

For me it hasn't made it more enjoyable, it doesn't make it less enjoyable either! I've used steam for a long while and it's much much better now than it used to be, and I've picked up a lot of great deals in the store over the years. I have steam open in the background while playing any game and it doesn't create any problems.

My only serious :swear: with steam is their habbit of updating games and servers on Friday evenings...

TBH.. I don't even know what all that means. All I know is steam is allways in my face now and wanting to snoop my computer for other games and ... I JUST WANTED TO PLAY FALLOUT! It just seems like I was forced to download spyware to be able to play a game I like.. and that's not cool and I'm pretty sure that's what allot of people are upset about.

Basically, D2D encrypts the EXE, without leaving hooks for the NVSE/FOSE/OBSE team to add scripts to the exe. What this means is that there's no chance of NVSE/FOSE/OBSE in D2D versions of the game.

Think of it like a castle. Steam has a drawbridge that they can lower for legitimate business. D2D just has walls. FOSE/NVSE/OBSE requires a drawbridge, because breaking down the walls is illegal.

This is important because the **SE family of extenders adds plenty of options to the game when it comes to modding. FOSE allowed for ridable deathclaws and changable ammunition before Obsidian hardcoded ammo changing into the exe. It allowed for PA to take damage on the fly, becoming unusable or even exploding if hit too much. It allowed for additional hotkeys, and it allowed modders to streamline scripts; with the commands that FOSE adds, an effect that would take multiple scripts to track can be done by a single line.

**SE is an incredible resource for anyone who uses mods, as it allows mods with very interesting effects compared to vanilla. Steam works with NVSE, FOSE, and OBSE. D2D does not.

Advantage: Steam.



You have to opt in to the computer survey. That's the only time it "spies" on you, to the best of my knowledge, though it's hard to call it "spying" when you've got to opt into it.

If you don't like steam running when you turn on the computer, you can turn that off in the options menu. Don't like it giving you advertisemants for other games? (Steam sales are generally highly lucrative though.) Head to the options menu and turn that off.

Steam is the greatest form of DRM in existence. If it wasn't for steam most of these big budget titles would never be released on the pc. I guarantee if you take half an hour and learn about what steam has to offer you will agree that it is much more of a pro than a con. You cannot say that about any other form of DRM.

I want some of what your smoking. Steam isnt the devil, but I would never have choosen it for any game I mod.

It patching my game for instance is really annoying. Now before you say, you can turn off automatic patching, that's not what annoys me. What annoys me is I cant select which patch to use. Lets face it, sometimes patches break more then they fix. (Fallout 3 1.5 patch looking at you)

Steam community, annoying feature, annoying to look at when I start up the game. Hell, I am not sure what it even adds to my game. But I cannot turn it off, because I need script extender. Fallout 3, didn't have a similar annoyance. If you mention for games for windows live, I will laugh at you, that could be turned off. Good luck turning off steam and playing new vegas.

the only thing I want out of steam is the option to launch it in offline mode (my network router is a POS), as it stand now I have to launch Steam, wait for the connection to fail, click "relaunch in offline mode", and wait for it to boot up again. An option to launch in offline mode from the beginning would save me about 3 minutes on my current rig.

And for those saying "Steam requires an internet connection in order to play single player games," this is false, in the top corner of the client where it says "Steam" there is a drop down menu that includes "Go Offline" that will unhook steam from the internet and will allow you to play steam games w/out the pesky steam community prompts.

If you choose "Go Offline" then Steam will restart in Offline mode.

After that, when it starts you should get a message saying basically "I'm in offline mode" with options to "Go online" or "Start in Offline mode".

I'm not 100% sure that persists through computer reboots, but it should. There shouldn't be a reason to wait for the connection to fail.

Its not about having or not having space. Do you store in your house all crap you can afford?


No when it decides it will not install from drive but download install instead. And then each time you want to install it again.


No I did not but there were plenty who did. And got none. There are several such post here on this forum.


And how exactly I can be sure if I want to update it or not before I actually see what patch do and what it breaks eventually?


If you dislike OS that its really bad luck. Unless somebody find way to run software without one. I really fail to see any parallel with Steam as non of the software distributed by Steam actually uses Steam to run. Which can not be sad about OS.


Tell me which business is not based on profit? Companies do not go bankrupt when their business is profitable, do they? Do you actually believe that once business is profitable it will stay profitable forever? Wasn't floppy disk business profitable just few years ago? Is Steam object of some kind of bizarre worship of yours or what if you really believe its eternal? Sure, makes sense. http://www.rususa.com/data/pictures/news/CCCP-USSR-Poster1.jpg.

I would gladly have my Name, Birthdate, Bank account, Social Security Number and DNA digitally attached to the EXE if it meant I could play without Steam.

I have said goodbye to some of my favorite game series because of uberintrusive DRM (Half Life, Splinter Cell, Starcraft...) I'm both saddened and enraged that I now have to add Fallout to that list. As someone who likes tinkering in the GECK to make fun little mods I would be quite upset if I put a lot of work into a mod that became unusable after a new patch, which did happen to some popular mods before. At that point all my work would have been for naught, and all the players using it would lose out as well. Now that might not be that big an issue for the smaller stuff I do, but if an automatic irreversible update were to invalidate something like FWE there would be some choice words from many players.

I briefly got to enjoy New Vegas on an XBOX, but Steam has prevented me from enjoying it further on my PC. It's really not enjoyable to respond to players asking me to port my mods to New Vegas with "No! Sorry, I hate Steam!" (I feel like a total jackhole doing that)

All of you people whining about faulty patches should be hunting down the group who WROTE the patch that busts your game.... it is not Steam's fault that the developer gave them shoddy material.

Wait. You say this yet you come out against intrusive DRM? There's some kind of disconnect here.

And it's not like Steam is intrusive as far as DRM goes. You want intrusive, look no further than Starforce. Or Securom, for that matter. Both are programs that penetrate into the very core of your PC like a virus and take root, then proceed to run on boot. They even resist easy removal, and if you have software or hardware they don't like, they'll disable it.

Steam uninstalls when you tell it to and only runs when you tell it to. It doesn't muck around with hardware much at all. It's only "intrusive" in that it takes up a few megabytes of HDD space, and how it runs (automatically) when you try to play a steam game.



Most patches don't break mods and with the ones that do, you just have to update the mod to work with the new patch in 99/100 cases. Heck, even when Fallout 3's 1.5 patch outright broke mods, a workaround was developed in short order until the 1.6 patch fixed it.

I fully agree. Thats why I direct my complaints to the Developers, if only there was forum hosted by them where I could post my displeasure.

I suspect the decision process went like this:


What was the biggest complaint we got last time
Oh wow, there were so many.. Oh I got it! Our patches would break more stuff than they fixed!
Bingo! Well guess what, I think I've found the perfect way to exasperate that problem. Steam!
Wha.. oh yeah. They would have no choice. They would have to use whatever we put out.
Yeah! Who's the man? High five!

Hey you two, hold that pose! I think I just got an idea for another of those Ink Blot tests for the beggining of the game.

I'm with you SteveDog. Very sad to have to forego NV, at least until it is so old and cheap and obsolete that it becomes available via some other source.

One word: overlay.

Unfortunately for you guys that hate steam (and fortunately for those of us who think it is a great service) more and more developers are deciding to go with it. Steam is simultaneously courting both developers (steamworks, great back end conveniences) and players (ridiculous sales unmatched in the industry, a thriving community) and most people are heeding its call. I want to say I sympathize with those of you who don't like steam, but at some point you guys have to realize that the freedom that the pc market once had is done and gone, and pc gaming is now supported mainly through digital distribution centers, where steam rules supreme.

And to those who are waiting for a non steam release of New Vegas on the pc, I wouldn't get my hopes up. I can't think of a single game in steams 7 year existence that used steamworks yet could be used completely without steam.

Uh..are we being asked how Steam makes it more enjoyable for the customers, or the developers?

'Cause being told "The Patch is done, maybe Steam will let you have it next week" ain't doing a damn thing to improve my enjoyment of the game compared to being told "The Patch is done, you can download it from our servers right now, apply it to your game, and get going."

Although I'm sure it makes life much more enjoyable for some schlub who just has to email it to Steam and go grab a beer rather than dealing with getting it posted for download himself. :shrug:

Oh, I know, & not all devs let people know ahead that Steamworks is going to be used, & not all players can use the sales (slow speed, caps).
that freedom is lost only because it was bartered away
& Steam IMHO will rule right up to the day that it has to be taken down for becoming a monopoly Ie, it's current strength could be it's own downfall

torchlight, Started Steam only, now can be bought without the need for it.

Still unless Bethesda knows how Steamworks can affect many of their customer/fanbase nothing can ever change the fact that Bethesda has divided this community sharply

offering a Steamfree option would end this senseless squabbling. We are all gamers here we shouldn't be fighting because Beth unknowingly set us up as a community of haves & have-nots

Dont ever forget you never really own your steam games, your at the mercy of steam. Better hope thier servers are up and running.

You don't own any of your games, you just bought a license to use them. And if servers are busy, just go offline.

You don't own them much less than you own cocacola bottle. Ownership of one doesn't grant you right to recipe its made on. Ownership of game do not grant you rights to the code, but otherwise you can use it as you see fit. Unless you bought it from Steam, that is

Difference is that when you buy a bottle, you own both it and it's contents. When you buy a game, you own the packaging and the disc but only a license to use the software contained in the disc. You never own the software. Only difference between Steam and non-Steam games is that Steam can prevent you from using the game should you break the terms of the EULA.

It can prevent you even if you don't

Offline mode works for me when the game doesn't want to start. Never had any problems starting Steam games.