New Vegas, meanwhile, has replay value as well. The four mutually exclusive ending questlines. The ability to simply not do the final quest, as the huge warning box tells you.

Seriously. What is the difference, in effect, between playing after the end and simply not doing the final quest? The game gives you a huge warning that the final quest is final, so it's not like it comes out of nowhere or anything... So what's the problem here? I don't understand. Don't give me nonsense about "common sense" or stuff like that. Explain with rational argumentation why this ending is a problem.



It makes plenty of sense. You're talking about games having an end. Every game I can think of that isn't a gamesas game in the last ten years has a firm end, with the exception of Mass Effect 2. Except Mass Effect 2's gameplay after the ending is utterly pointless. Multiplayer doesn't factor in to the fact that the single player campaign in nearly every game out there ends at some poine.



First, Obsidian is not Bethesda.

Second, the game warns you that the end of the game is coming, in the gaming equivalent of huge block letters, and there is nothing preventing you from simply saying "I'm not ready yet" when the huge message box asks you whether you want to finish the game or head back into the wasteland.

So again, what is the difference between playing after the end and simply never doing the final quest?

I am pretty sure that Obsidian said that they got a lot of feedback that players did not like how the ending in FO3 was basically moot with the ability to play on afterwards. I don't have any source for this, just a vague memory. I also thought they said that a definitive ending makes the most sense when dealing with factions.

I guess there are a group of people who hate definitive endings in a sandbox type of game. And there is another group that absolutely wants a definitive ending for a better story. Can't please them both. Remember, just because you think it should be a certain way, doesn't make you right. The one universal complaint was there was no warning in FO3 and there is in NV. So, I am with Cpl. Facehugger, I don't get the difference with playing after the end or not proceeding after the large warning sign.

I know there are ALOT of other games that have definite endings out now but theyre all way too different to compare with fallout. I got to collect all this neat stuff and level up to about 24 before the game ended (most of the neat stuff i collected was on the last mission). I wish i had tooken that warning a bit more seriously but oh well. Hope they change their mind on the DLC, i was really looking forward to completing those side quests i missed, using my newly aquired weapons and perks, and possibly explore the mojave wasteland with all the changes that occurred at the end.

Unless you've deleted all the saves you made before the final quest, you can still go around and finish those sidequests. You just have to reload a save file.

(I did this in my first play of Fallout 3. I played around with the game, explored, did some sidequests, and then finished the main quest at around 25 hours of play. I then reloaded my save from just before the last quest, and ran around the wasteland living it up for another 50+ hours. Great fun was had.)

It was actually on page 1 of the manual in FO3, plus there was a rather heavy hint that "this is the point of no return", which should have signalled to the player to make a new save as a return-point for finishing up any last-minute quests. I guess some people didn't notice that, though, hence really big message in FO:NV.

I do always feel rather surprised when a game ends, which is ridiculous, because except for Morrowind and Oblivion (and Fallout 3 if you have Broken Steel) they all end! Mass Effect and Dragon Age ends, so really, you'd think I'd be over the surprise factor by now. Not that I really mind or anything - I always retire my characters shortly after the ending, even if I am allowed to play on, though sometimes it's nice to be able to send them off to a nice modded castle or something to recover from their ordeal.

It may be a short list, but some of the best RPG and RPG-like games are the exceptions. Oblivion, Mass Effect 1 &2, Borderlands and Dragon Age for example. Each gave you the option to continue playing after beating the game. in some cases with a sort of "soft ending" which deposited your character back into the world as it existed immediately before the final stage of the main quest, but with all the equipment, experience and other benefits you had gained in the process. Fallout 3 gave us the Broken Steel expansion (I know Obsidian already said they wouldn't do this, no need to repeat yourselves again, just making an example) in which you got to see the immediate and short term effects of your choices and actions.

Now, once again I would like to point out that I'm taking a moderate stance here and that I think both extremes in this argument are a little ridiculous. I don't feel slighted or have any desire to return the game or boycott Obsidian and/or Bethesda because the game has a final hard ending (the pervasive glitches and frequent crashes are another matter). Just the same I think that any game with no multiplayer has a lot to gain in terms of replay value by allowing play to continue past the "end". Even a "saved game +" feature or subsequent playthrough bonuses such as those in most of the games mentioned above as well as many other RPGs would be nice. Maybe allowing all those challenge perks to carry over.

lolz make up your mind! XD First you complain about SINGLE PLAYER then when you arguments get countered you try and counter back with pointing out MULTIPLAYER modes?

There is a disclaimer. It pops up right before you accept the last quest in the main story. It's the only prompt you receive in the entire game that asks you if you really want to do the quest.

it wont' be any DLC on new vegas. the entire game was a mistake. they say they want a story they can stick to.

I don't look at it as the "end of the game" but rather "the end of this chapter of the Fallout Post-Nuclear Cold War Alternate Universe American Wasteland Saga".

You were all wondering why you paid $50 for a game that you could potentially get over 100 hours of gameplay out of, because it had a definitive ending? You must buy like two games a year.

hmm.....turn off and on again. to play again.

I think I can explain why people want to continue playing after the ending. Either

1. They are angry they forgot to save before going past the point of no return, despite the warning.

and/or

2. Having the main quest constantly lingering in an unfinished state, especially at such as critical point in the story, feels weird and goes against the sense of immersion that comes with doing what your character would do. Personally, I'm not too bothered by the ending, but this is a feeling I get and Isuspect many players complaining are complaining simply because it is satisfying to get a duty of a sort out of the way and then continue playing. Seeing the immediate consequences of one's actions, despite being very limited, is also sometimes satisfying. In particular, walking down from Red Mountain in Morrowind or being hailed as a hero and the Champion of Cyrodiil with an Oblivion gate-free environment and having a cool statue in the middle of a partially destroyed section of the Imperial City is satisfying, to me. Being the hero is fun, and playing before completing the most urgent part of a story just feels strange and out of character.

I side with the second reason, and while most games end and I'm not too bothered by it, I wish some more developers would adopt a true open-world game style and deviate from the standards of traditional gaming a bit more. Even just a simple "play in an a non-serious way" as in Fallout 2 would be welcome, but seeing the initial phases (just the initial phases) of a story's consequences would be a very satisfying. Why don't people want to actually SEE some consequences of their actions, even if just at its early stages? I don't want to watch a slide telling me I gained some prestigious honor and got praised, I want to actually gain the honor and go to that praise party. Just that and nothing else is satisfying enough, for me. If people don't want that, then perhaps they could click the restart button and leave those of us who actually want to gain that honor and play after the ending be. Yes, you could go and wipe out that town that supposedly thrived, but if you care about the place's described fate so much, you wouldn't be doing that, would you? Why should you care if someone else wants to do it? Even Fallout 2 had a simple play after the ending mode. What's the problem?

It svcks that you feel that way. Sounds like a hyperbole to me though.

I do. I buy about two games a year.

And that's only on years when a game like Fable, Mass Effect, The Elder Scrolls, or Fallout comes out.

Does that make me somehow... less valued a customer to these companies? Because I like a certain thing about the games... and choose to spend my money on these games... somehow my opinion matters less to the developers?

So what you're saying is... I have to buy what? Five... six... ten games for my opinion to matter? Otherwise... my taste in games just... doesn't mesh... and so therefore should be overruled. Well, I get it now, I think. Yeah. So what I have to do to get the games I like... to start catering to me again... is simply STOP liking the things I like, and agree with you and someone else!

How crazy! I never would have thought of that!


Erm... okay... so I'm going to stop being a jerk, at this point, and just go ahead and say that I -agree- with these guys who feel like they got screwed. Mind you, it's their own damn fault for not READING anything about the game before running out to spend their money. I, myself, only went out and got it for the sole reasoning that I -knew- someone would make a mod to let me continue playing, even though Obsidian's short-sightedness would have otherwise denied me the privilege.

Don't get me wrong! They did a damn good job on the endings! They're very true to the classics, and well done.

That being said, they could have been just as true to Fallout 2, and given me a 'Continue Playing: Yes/No' box.

That's all I would have needed. No fuss over making the world reflect the ending. No messing around with all that sticky 'faction' crap.


Me and, most likely most of the people who feel like me, really don't give a damn about the game world reflecting the ending dialogue. Sorry. It's just not all that important to the experience. Not to people who're only interested in scavving the wasteland, wandering around, etcetera, etcetera.


Of course, maybe they just didn't allow you to continue playing because, really, there's not much to explore.

By the time you've beaten the game... well... you've pretty much seen all the -exciting- bits. The rest is pretty tame, after that.

Said rather well there. What's the difference between what you're describing (playing the game after finishing it without the game world being affected by the results) and just not finishing the story?

The difference is that, after the final mission is done, that mission doesn't keep just -hanging- there over my head like an axe!


If you just let me finish the game, get my kudos from whoever I helped (or pat myself on the back, wildcard style), then I can go on my happy way without having to feel like I just LEFT the whole world hanging. Seriously? You don't get that? You can't see how that might be distracting to someone who actually roleplays their character through the game?

Alright then. Imagine this, if you will:

My NCR soldier, Charles Addison, is a tightwad, by-the-book kind of guy. He's the sort of guy basically -born- to be a grunt. Not too bright, but good with a gun and clever enough to make a pretty decent officer.

Now imagine this guy, to whom duty comes above all else, getting to the FINAL mission! There he is. Staring down Caesar's Legion.

Suddenly: "Oh hey, wait... I kind've wanted to find that dead prosttute's murderer. And I'd feel bad about leaving so-and-so unpaid for that thing I they helped me out with. Oh yeah, and wasn't that Boone-guy looking for someone who sold his wife off to the Legion? Damn. Sorry General, this battle is going to have to wait."


Can you see what I mean? Does that make sense to you?

I can -imagine- that the world changes after the Dam is retaken. I can pretty much clear out the rest of Caesar's Legion myself, by that point, if I have to. For all intents and purposes, the game is over... but I get to sit back at McCarran, in my new office (given to me when some -other- officer met his untimely demise), and enjoy all the bountiful goodness that NCR dollars can buy me.

I know this hot little number, over at Gomorrah... yeah? She's a real spitfire.


I can MAKE happen some of the things that the ending credits say happen. I can also make some of them NOT happen.

But I can't make that entire battle just magically GO AWAY because I decide I want to dike around in the wasteland a little longer.

It's that simple.

Sorry in advance for squashing your post. It's rather... Large.



I role-play too, so I understand your position to some extent. However when I'm faced with that sort of problem (I never am really as I'm a natural procrastinator but never mind that) I either find a place I can safely stop the main quest before I go past the role-playing point of no return which is basically the end of the second to last main story quest.

This is where you differ from the vast majority of those that are complaining about wanting to play past the main quest though. You hate it because it feels wrong to stop in the middle of an important event. The others completely ignored the warning.

The game was intended to have a definite end and many people knew that. Those that didn't were informed of the point of no return in game with the warning text box. I sympathize with you to some degree but at the same time, you admitted that your problem with it was fixed with a mod that's been released, so the issue was solved for you.

As for the two games a year thing. I do the exact same thing. I wait a long time before buying new games. Even if I want to play one that came out, I'll likely rent it to play so I can beat it and move on. I doubt that ADoseOfBuckley was making a jab at you for that so much as he seemed to be making a point that most games released in any given year have a definite ending as opposed to games like Mass Effect 2 or Oblivion (games like those are extremely rare).

Until they release some DLC :celebration:

I'll squish your post down to size. That way, we're even. ^_^




I do get what you're saying. And I get what he was saying too... sometimes I just can't help but be a [censored], and call people out on saying things which might be unintentionally offensive to some folks.

And I do get that Obsidian wanted the game to have a definitive ending.

I just don't get how, the same folks who worked on Fallout 2... and stuck in a 'play after the game' time-waster option for the folks like me who just wanted to enjoy the wasteland, felt the need to turn around and suddenly alienate the lot of us. We -were- a pretty large group, even back in those days. And moreso, when the game got picked up by Bethesda.

It just seems to me like... it was unnecessary. It could have been done both ways, and made -everyone- happy.

Nobody was going to be in danger of getting -forced- to play beyond the ending credits. For those players, it would have been over.

When people do things like that, it's frustrating.

I don't mind, like I said, because I have my mod. I can play as long after the game ends as I like. But it still drives me crazy... because it could have been a complete non-issue. It could have been something so small, that no threads would ever have been made about it. Folks wanting to play after the game, could have. Folks wanting to say 'Game Over', could have.

Instead, we end up with debate... and angry folks... who keep making these damn posts.

And while I will say again, anyone surprised by the ending and feeling 'cheated' deserved to be... because you really -do- have to learn to research what you're buying... it still doesn't mean that I think they don't deserve a game that gives them what they want.

Y'know?

Um no ..

There's big point to it. Fights, side quests, and mod-added content. For some of us, the wandering-around and doing stuff is the big thing, not that funky battle at the end.

There is a Free-Play-After-MQ mod that has been made for this which solves it all, fortunately.

Did it again.



I think the biggest reason why they didn't make it so you could play beyond the ending is that it'd be compared to Fallout 3's Broken Steel expansion. Broken Steel (which was... different) allowed the player to continue past the original ending and onto another ending which they could in turn, play past. The difference is that the game world was changed to reflect the choices the character made but it was relatively easy because there were so few choices to make in the first place.

Say Obsidian made the game so you could play past the end. They'd be bound to do one of two things. Either they could ignore the choices the player made throughout the main story (which there are tons to make) and create an environment ripe for pissing off people who expected their decisions to have weight to them. Or (I'm tempted to slap myself for using the word "or" to begin a sentence) Obsidian could try to make it so the player could continue the game and try to cover all the different paths he/she could take on the way to the end... which would take a very, very long time to do. In the end, I guess they figured they would allow themselves to create a game with a wide-branching story and avoid allowing the player to keep on trucking after the final event. It saved them time, stayed true to Fallout 1 and 3's (before the Broken Steel DLC) ending style, and allowed them to go ape**** with the choices you can make in the game.

Mind you, I still understand your perspective, but I just wanted to show what I think Obsidian's reasoning was.

I'm pretty sure that's -exactly- Obsidian's reasoning... but I still feel like it was short sighted.


They took the easy way out now, unlike Bethesda... which just couldn't figure out how to make a satisfying end-game scenario, and expect that we're all just going to be okay with it because at least the ending didn't svck as bad as gamesas's did.

That's how it feels.


And if they at least made a Shivering Isles-esque expansion for the game, I'd shut up. I would.

Because with the time it takes to build an expansion pack, you -can- play out all the possible endings properly. You can develop quests and opportunities for the player who sided with each of the factions... and you can make a game which satisfies everyone by then -not- forcing them to stop playing at the end of that. Give us some real power, or rise to a position of authority of some kind, and then just let the story-telling stop.

Or they can just stick with what they did: Make PC-players the only folks who can continue on after the game ends because of mods.

I guess I'm okay with that, too, so long as I don't ever burn out my PC.

This exactly. If only there were a way for the modders to ply their craft for the benefit of console gamers like myself. But I'm sure most of the staunch opposition would be willing to tell us that playing on console means that I am not a real gamer and my opinion can be dismissed out of hand.

I don't think it's shortsighted. It allowed them to make a really expansive story considering there are basically four major factions you can bring to power and multiple smaller factions you can enlist the aid of or neutralize. I have to say that there are very few games that give you that sort of freedom and I was pretty amazed when I figured that out. They exceeded the scope of Fallout 3's story in terms of choice but it in turn shot any attempt to allow for canon post-story gameplay in the foot.

Also, given Obsidian and Bethesda's track records, I would find it difficult to believe that they wouldn't release an actual expansion. I loved how much extra gameplay The Shivering Isles expansion added (despite it being incredibly strange) and I imagine the developers would be awesome at piecing together something like that. Perhaps in time... Patience is the only thing I can practice.