I thought about this the other day....

Something that would've been nice is if your base character had more effect on the Vampirism and lycanthropy. I'm not talking about lore or anything, just from a gameplay perspective. As it is now, these are two playthroughs. There's no reason to play a Wood elf werewolf and then a Redguard one; werewolf is werewolf, essentially.

I read on the wiki that it USED to be that werewolf defense was effected by Light armor perks, then this got patched. HORRIBLE patch decision, imo. It'd be nice if perks effected these forms, as it would provide a variety of different ways to play them and play the game in general. If Light armor gave werewolves their defense then it'd make werewolves more exclusive and more powerful for light armor characters. If destruction effected Vampirism magic attacks, then it'd make wizards be better vampires. If illusion and conjuration effected their totem counterparts, that'd be great too. I just think there should've been more interactivity for the base character. If lycanthropy doubled your stamina and x1.5ed your health, and maybe vampirism 1.5ed your health and magicka, then look: character variety! Woo! Suddenly playing a vampire on a full stamina character seems meaningless, whereas a stamina-health character as a werewolf feels godlike.

Instead we just have two basic forms that seem like they'd feel more or less the same. The only limitations, it seems, are that wizards make for slightly better vampire lords, whereas health on a werewolf is nice.

That would be great but what if you broke a quest by doing that? That you really wanted to finish? I guess it could come up with a reminder that "hey you gunna turn" when ever you come back to the game or atleast some sign or hint that your gunna turn.

Also I want a more feminine female Werewolf. The Vampire Lord female has briasticles I want Werewolf briasticles

Yeah, Bethesda really did do a one size fits all approach, but not completely. If you don't put points into health, and try and be a WW you'll run into problems. It's much less with VL seeing how it jacks up your magicka anyways, so it doesn't matter if you're a mage. I also heard that perks in general don't affect either transformation.

Originally in like Vanilla Skyrim, before it's became rainbow flavor. Werewolves were affected by Light Armor and One Handed perks, or so they said. Light Armor increased it's defensive strength, One handed increased the damage. but that was long long ago.

Hmm, I think they should've kept that.

That's exactly how it feels for me. My VL is a very powerful mage while not in VL form, which feeds into my VL form making for a " monster " of a spell caster. Then there's my werewolf, who when not hunting as a werewolf is a seasoned warrior who has tons of health and stamina in Orc form, but once in werewolf form it's quite silly how much health and stamina I have. But mages do make for good werewolves, there's a certain perk set, standing stone etc...etc... that stacks for a passive 80% spell resistance while in werewolf form.

The mod I mentioned does have a little warning that shows up on the screen and there are visual cues that your going to change. I wouldn't gripe about a warning, it wouldn't hinder the experience, it's just that personally I would like it to be without warning and could happen anywhere during a full moon.
Why do you want a feminine looking werewolf ? Female dogs don't look any different then a male dog until they have pups, then they develop briasts. Other wise you gotta get a look between their legs to be able to tell, so werewolves should be the same way. Besides female werewolves are a brown colour, while male werewolves are black.

Because its a Werewolf not a dog, Were being part humanoid so there would be slight impression of boobage if not, then perhaps a more feminine shape. Just being smaller is kind of.... "lame"? Also mods don't really help, since alot of people including myself are on console. PC users can modify the game till their blue in the face and so is their character.

I'm a console player as well, but I get to envy my little bro who's a PC player. Did you ever see " Ginger snaps " ? She was a female werewolf and compared to her human form, her werewolf form was lacking in the boob department http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120511062011/horrormovies/images/5/5a/Gingersnaps.jpg and if you look at most other female werewolves from movies if there are boobs there not that noticeable. Werewolves are a kin to dogs/wolves so they should show the same physical features as both dogs and wolves, perhaps a slight size difference and a difference in colour but nothing to resemble the human form other the walking on two legs.

Believe it or not.... did you know that the werewolf we all know and love isn't the proper werewolf form? The true from is identical to a wolf minus the tail, the only way to tell if it was a real wolf or a werewolf was if the wolf was missing it's tail. So twilight's werewolves where closer to the true thing then those of Underworld.

Don't talk about werewolves being like twilight.werewolves are nothing like those stupid ones from twilight. Twilight is terrible. No you do not know what real werewolves look like and neither do I because no one has ever seen one. Werewolves are a myth.

Yeah but not to be rude or anything but The Ginger Snaps Werewolf looks like a beaten and abused wolf with cancer, it is ugly and not the "good ugly" the ugly ugly.
As for Werewolf myths and legends, there are many and multiple variations. Some believed that, some believed they were more like "Wolfmen" some said they were great man beasts, or perhaps it's more encouraging to say "the werewolf from An American Werewolf in london" rather than twilight because Twilight is rubbish and even the cydrollic vampire in skyrim are 10 TIMES COOLER than twilight vampires clans or no clans.

I also have alot of Envy and hatred towards PC gamers. Not all, just those snobbish ones who think the answer to all gaming problems are "modding" I hate modding. And Bethesda encourage it, and it makes me feel sad since console gamers get nothing. We're at Bethesda's mercy when it comes to content and patchs, some modding communities have perfected the game of their dreams. They don't need to ask for improvements or changes from Bethesda, they just turn themselves in Cyber God and make the changes at their whim then spread their little cyber bible to other pc gamers and modding becomes a little religion with these amazing modders as Cyber Gods and the pc community as their followers. It annoys me a little bit... Just a little.

But back to the topic at hand.

More feminine Werewolves please for female characters. And a favourites menu for the Werewolf howls.

I had thought of a slight alteration. According to the Brotherhood totem and perks.

From what I've heard the Brotherhood totem takes 60 seconds to recharge after use.

What if with the "favourites menu" if it'll get added for Werewolves, if you could pick what to summon, Wolves, Ice wolves, Werewolves.

Summon 4 Wolves the cooling down for this would be 30 seconds, Summoned 4 Ice Wolves The cool down for this would be 45 seconds, summon 2 Werewolves this would be 60 seconds.

And instead of red spirits how about life the summong animation the purple orb thing like used for Fire Astronach. Use those and have normal looking ally wolves, ice wolves etc.

That would be me so super happy.

Well they're Mythological we have no proof if they exist(ed) or not. All we have are folk lore from around the world and even if they do exist, we couldn't prove it because if they do look like wolves when changed they'd look like wolves we wouldn't know if it were a Werewolf, or if they did turn into 7 foot man beasts well..... I don't know.

I mean the ancient greeks spoke of Bull-men and Snake women and massive massive beings we don't know they never existed because they could be all dead now

the bullmen are minotaurs and the snake women is actually one woman named medussa who could turn people vto stone.

I believe all 3 of them could, Medusa was the only mortal of the Gorgon sisters the other 2 were Immortal. And I believe she was the youngest and "prettiest" of the 3

Yeah she wasn't done very well, but it illustrates what I was talking about. As for the PCer's, not all are jerks but a couple bad apples ruins the bunch, it would be nice if we could always get along but there's always going to be one knob. Those are good ideas, I would be happy just being able to switch out my howls on the fly.

I know there are alot of good pc gamers out there.

I think the useful ness of the werewolf would definately increase noticably if we could switch out Howls on the fly, as well as choosing a different summon. Imagine having a small pack of Ice Wolves with you. 4 + You that's be fun, 4 to balance it out since Werewolves can svcker punch people into the next millenium.

The howl where you summon two werewolves kind of pisses me off, because when I summon them they usually don't attack unless they get attacked. So, I could be in a battle, and they will just be standing there with their claws up their asses.

Well my point was more...

Your stats have some effect on the forms, but your perks do jack. This means that if you have a level 81 mage and a level 81 warrior both turn into vampire lords, the ONLY difference is that one has more HP and one has more magicka.
It just feels like it defeats the purpose of AAAAAALL the work you've done on your character if Vampire or lycanthropy reduces them to nothing but their base stats, simply because all perks are nullified when you enter those forms (the only exception to my knowledge being mage armor with werewolves).
It'd be nice to see more character interactivity, where the base character perk trees have different effects on the two transformations. Not just everyone being melted down and put into one of two categories...

Yeah. It'd be nice if you could have your Light Armor skill factor into your defense and have the perks active even though you're not technically armored. It'd be cool to have a chance of dodging an enemy's attack or being able to do sweeping power attacks if you had the Two-Handed perk that did that.

Above all though, I'd really like the werewolves to be able to sneak. I'd actually be able to feel like a hunter in werewolf form if I could sneak, rather than a man running and screaming at the top of his lungs.

Yeah I get your meaning, everyone feels the same It would make worlds of difference if your " human " perk set had an effect on your werewolf / vampire lord forms. I guess then you could start to think in terms of one toon actually being 2 so now you would have to think ahead if your going to be either WW or VL, which perk set ( ie ranger etc...etc...) would most benefit both your " human " form and the " wolf / bat " form. Then there would actually be different possible classes of werewolves / vampire lords.


The ability to sneak and stalk your pey while in werewolf form would open up sooOOOoo much RPing not to mention the whole other combat style that's opened up. I can stalk as is now but I have to remain 50+ feet away, but if I was able to sneak up right on you or lye in wait for an ambush...... That idea gets a great big A+ my friend, we should have been able to sneak from the start.

I posted this in the Volkihar thread, and I will post it here too, mainly to see what you guys think:

Okay, I think I found a solution to this whole debate, well not really a solution, but it is a way that Bethesda could have avoided it. So what Bethesda should have done with Dawnguard is make Harkon and his group the Order, pureblooded Cyrodiilic vampires, because that is essentially what they are if you look at their powers and feeding mechanics, and they should have left these vampires eyes the way the original eyes looked. Then make all the other buffoon vampires that dwell in caves and such the Volkihar, meaning they have the new bat face, and glowing eyes, but they could also change the feeding for these vampires so that they feed to get stronger.

If they did this instead I think most of us would be fairly happy because the Order would, to some degree, be implemented into the game and be close to their lore, while the Volkihar would be close to their lore. And all those people who hated being a Cyrodiilic vampire now have the Vampire Lord ability to make them "better" but you don't have to use that ability if you want to be just a normal Cyrodiilic vampire, and those people who wanted to have vampires with normal feeding now have what they wanted. Am I crazy, or does anyone else think that this would have been the middle ground for what everyone wanted?

Harkon group cannot be order since they have different innate bonuses and abilities compared to the order/cyrodil vampires lets not forget order/cyrodil vampires have red eyes. Plus harkon court pretty much has no interest in human politics lol werewolf is going to throw a fit if you compare harkon's court to order. Yes they share the same feeding system but they are not the same in terms of abilities and perks and their overall personality. If they ever made harkon's court order vampires I will rage.

In terms of personality harkon's court fits the description of volkihar vampires cruel and reclusive.

I am not saying that Harkon and his group are the Order, what I said above was what I think Bethesda should have done.

I can see what you are saying but I don't want bethesda to do that we already know of the order because of oblivion and personally I don't like order vampires.

Oh and some of the vampires in harkon's court have the bat face I would like to think that's what volkihar vampires look like at stage 4 hopefully someone can mod that in on PC release.

I was a little let down when I found out that my vampire would not get the bat face I REALLY, REALLY wanted it. I went out of my way to make him look all nosferatu before he even became a vampire.