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this, you and I hold the same beliefs about werewolves. Lets not morph these werewolves into creatures of convenience for the casual gamer but hold true to the true lore and eventually end up, this applies to the whole game, with an experience which keeps gamers coming back because of the lore and resulting mechanics.

You mean the werewolves that have been introduced so far.. Bethesda always introduce new versions of werewolves or vampires.

exactly how it should be.

Which is upsetting because they keep making gameplay easier than it should be. Lycanthropy shouldn't be a huge boon to be used for players to run around ripping people to shreds. It is fun, it is awesome, but there seems to be no drawbacks at all. No balance. It svcks.

We can feed on animals now? What the hell is that? It is plain obvious Bethesda wants to feed more of these whiney children easier gameplay so they clap their little hands and tap their little feet. No lunar transformations, transform at will, no continuious loss of health to characters in werewolf form, stage 4 vampirism removed, no true sun damage, almost no drawbacks at all. Vampires and werewolves in the Elder Scrolls are going downhill with all these new concepts. You may not agree with me, but there are many people that do.

Yeah I think personally that werwolves should have a forced transformation every month and if bethesda removes sun damage from vampires at least make the weakness more detrimental like make regen -200% that way you can't stack regen items and debuff your magicka, hp and stamina by 20 and make the hp, magicka and stamina debuff cumlitive with each stage.

Vampires and werewolves need the right drawbacks. People keep talking about drawbacks, but what about improvements? The base forms of vampires and werewolves have hardly any strengths that are in line with their "condition". Vampires should be quite weak during the day, but should be very powerful during the night. Werewolves should be powerful at all times, but have lunar transformations to worry about if they don't have the ring of hircine.

As a side note, I'm talking about base form, not transformation. The WW and VL transformations are powerful, but very limited and are a different subject than base form. The transformations can not be used as the sole source of power for either base form, since they are restricted in many ways the base form is not.

I outlined some of these in the OP. Specifically, werewolves and vampires receiving a boost to unarmed damage, and a 5% increase in their regens across the board, though the vampire ones would only activate at night.

This right here!!!!! Bethesda is screwing us for the little kids so they get more sales. They could easily bring back these features for werewolves yet they choose not to.

I see you mention vampiric drain, but did you also mention that it should be much stronger? The reason I say should instead of could is because the current version is useless.

If you have Serena as your follower it is usless because of a bug.. all attacks svck with as a follwer

Yeah. The Vampiric drain would scale 5 points of damage (but I feel should cost the same at each level) per rank/stage of vampirism, so you'd be absorbing 5dms at your weakest and 20 at your highest. I was thinking of making it stronger, but creating a 40 health gap between you and your opponent every second (as your health is increasing while theirs is decreasing) sounds like a pretty good amount, especially if it will only cost as much as the novice spell does at stage one currently.

I agree with things that are being said here. Especially the use of all 3 totems via a "favourites" menu ala the Vampire Lord's abilities. and I "would" have liked a damage reduction in the perk tree but I'm not too fussed with that.

Now again I agree with what is being said, lore is important, some changes could be made. But really, bashing Bethesda and bashing Todd Howard, isn't going to help any.

If you did something that someone didn't think was good enough and they said "Hey you useless pile of rubbish. Do that again it isn't good enough" Would you really feel like doing it again? I sure as hell wouldn't. So saying how Bethesda have failed you for not adding your Lunar Changes or adding this that or the other and saying how stupid they are because they didn't isn't really going to give them any incentive to think.

"You know, maybe we could add it in, it is lore, and it's what people are asking for, maybe we could one day" and will more likely have a "Well they're being rude, and hating on us so F*** them, and F*** their lore, they aren't getting anything from us".

So maybe with some more civility, and just basic ideas of what would be cool, and what could be possibly be done in a nice manner and less of the hate filled rants on what they should have done and what they haven't done. You may find.... may not saying you will, you may get better response. Then again only reading from this and the previous thread if all 3 threads have been nothing but hateful spurning on Bethesda well. I wouldn't blame them if you didn't get what you'd hoped for.

Now I know, those of you who know me from my own Werewolf threads know that all I wanted was a more Powerful Werewolf, which thanks to the perk tree.... which I'll be getting when Dawnguard is released for PS3, yeah I've got what I wanted pretty much. Not perfect but I'm not fussed, if they added atleast the favourites menu to allow access to all the Werewolf roars I'd be one happy "over the moon" man

Positivity thinking and action gets Positive outcomes.

That's just me throwing in my few pennies.

This is probably one of the most civil threads on these forums lol. I agree with you though. Complaining and complaining without suggesting any ways to improve is pointless, and doesn't help. But, that is why this is a good thread. The OP does suggest many changes for the current system, and I find it hard not to agree with all of them.

I know, and REL does give some good suggestions, but it is others who I believe are too fixed and too passionate on the Lore and use that passion to act negatively in what has been made, if they used the passion they have for the Lore and reply positively and make a few simple suggestions, perhaps a little praising, then yes perhaps something could be changed.

I'm not trying to hate on anyone, please understand me everyone, I've said I agree with you the upgrades from Dawnguard are great, but could be better, but remember, unlike "Bloodmoon" Werewolves are not the main focus of Skyrim, andd if they did add Lunar changes, they'd have to create new input or other such technical things. And the player would have to be careful they aren't doing anything important and haven't forgotten that they are to change that night.

The werewolve perk tree does not really make you more powerful.

This is off topic, but, does anyone know if resistance to magic affects player spells like absorb magic does?

Ugh, not to be rude. But it DOES, that's the point of it, fully perks out the Werewolf does double damage so 160 per swing, gain 200 health and stamina when transformer, 100 health regen from feeding, eat anything and then there are the roar upgrades, so YES, it is more powerful because of the perk tree


You mean if it carries over into Werewolf / Vampire Lord form?.... Yeah I heard somewhere it does

No, I mean does it affect your own spells. Sort of like the absorb magic bug.

I think some people are less... diplomatic in the way they've chosen to express their disappointments, but I don't think they're wrong for feeling that way.

When I first started playing Skyrim, I didn't care about vampirism, because it seemed largely worthless to me. Then I picked up a copy of Immortal Blood, and I was just overwhelmed with thoughts of how awesome vampires could have been. Could being the key word. Bethesda had an amazing idea for vampires at the ready, and they opted to discard it in favor of adding a few tassels to the vampires from Oblivion and calling it good.

Then Dawnguard was announced, and we learned it was going to be vampire centric. Those of us who were disappointed with vampires were equally hopeful and cautious, because we had been burnt before. When we saw the trailer and the Vampire Lord form, many of us felt disappointed that once again the lore we wanted to see come to life was being abandoned for the sake of territory previously treaded upon, maybe not in this series, but with several vampire movies and the like. However, our fears were lessened somewhat when a Bethesda staff member assured us that we wouldn't be disappointed, and even hinted that lore abiding Volkihar would be seen at last. Then, at E3, we were told that the regular vampires were receiving an overhaul. Many of us were excited that these vampires would be the Volkihar we felt should have been in Skyrim to begin with were going to be here at last.

Then Dawnguard was released, and those of us who hadn't been in the Beta learned what the "overhaul" really was: simple nerfing. The weaknesses were reduced, they received no new abilities (nor was their unique spell, Vampire Drain, enhanced), and now they weren't even attacked at Stage 4, despite the fact that feeding was easier than ever. We could no longer be discovered and hated for being a vampire, even though we now had eyes that could act as lighthouses in their own right. To make things even worse from a lore perspective, vampires that should be of the Cyrodiilic variety weren't fixed so that they were Cyrodiilic, and because of their glowing eyes the error is now impossible not to notice unless you're uninitiated.

But to me, the biggest failing is that the Vampire Lords and the vanilla vampires are the same save the ability to transform. That's all that separates the two, and it is without a doubt, one of the worst design decisions I've ever heard of. It makes the original vampires completely pointless to play as. From a gameplay perspective, they're utterly worthless, and from a story telling one, the decision seems to be made only to justify not having to come up with an actual new strain of vampirism.

To me, this whole thing kind of seems like getting the wrong order in a restaurant. You're disappointed, and you tell the waiter what happened. They apologize, and tell you they'll fix the problem in just a few minutes. So you wait, eagerly anticipating getting the stuff you actually wanted the first time around. But when the waiter comes back, it's still not what you ordered, and then you find out they're charging you for both items.

Granted, this is a video game, and Bethesda shouldn't be forced to make a game to our exact specifications, but I don't see the wisdom in these design choices. First of all, not everyone likes vampires, so making a vampire-centric DLC is a risky move. However, there are many people who are fans of TES who love the vampire lore, and want to play as those vampires, so what's the logic in making the vampires completely unappealing to your core vampire fanbase? They still didn't make playing as regular vampires enjoyable. In fact, they did the opposite, because the regular vampires are redundant when you can have all their powers plus the ability to transform at no extra cost to your character.

I'm not saying Bethesda shouldn't have made the Vampire Lords. They seem interesting, and I'm sure I could have fun playing as them, but they shouldn't have tried to connect them with the original vampires and clumsily try and connect them to the lore. It doesn't work, and it makes things less appealing overall to me and many others. We shouldn't be lighting torches and grabbing pitchforks, but we need to let our displeasure be heard, so that we can at least try to persuade them to change it. That's why this thread exists.

Wild werewolves should not spread Lycantropy, If I recall, werewolves do not infect people threw BITES but direct contact with there blood.

Nope. Skyrim's Companions use a blood ritual, but in Bloodmoon and Daggerfall you contracted Lycanthropy from being bit by a lycanthrope.

That's the thing isn't it? You think about what something could be and wind up getting angry because that isn't what is. Reality can never live up to fantasy. I'm not saying we shouldn't try or dream. Just that the sooner one comes to terms with this fact, the happier one will be. Aim for the stars just know you may not always get there.

Where the hell did you get this idea from? Have you not read any lore regarding werewolves?

I'm not sure sorry I don't know the glitch



Again I agree with you. Bethesda have made some bad decisions, but with some simple responses and without any negative frustration they could repatch it to make it better. I'm just saying that if you bash and hate on someone for doing something you disagree with, they are less likely inclined to fix it and possibly be resentful of it, the people at Bethesda are only human with emotions.

I know I'm probabily too tame with my replies, and others like letting out their angry replies and the sort but I'm a firm believer in acting positive which produces positive feedback.

But we weren't grasping at straws. We had a very defined idea of what we would be getting, because Bethesda took the time to outline the idea for us, at least regarding the Volkihar. If they realized they couldn't achieve those abilities for whatever reasons, they had an easy out: don't call them Volkihar. We only knew about one clan in Skyrim, the most powerful, but we didn't know about lesser clans. So they could have easily made us a lesser strain of vampires in Skyrim. There'd be disappointment about not being Volkihar, but we wouldn't be up in arms about the Volkihar not being Volkihar.