The Legion. Personally I can't stand Ulfric, so there's no way I want him to be High King. The Legion also doesn't just draw their weapons on me at random like the Stormcloaks do. Dude, I was chasing a butterfly. No need to wave a battleaxe in my face.

hes not weakening the empire. Tullius is preserving it, the storm cloaks are the ones dividing the two making each in turn a great bit weaker. in truth Ulfric is working for the high elves because he is destroying the alliance between Skyrim and the empire. should he win the war he would destroy the connection making it easier for the Thalmor to just walk in each area and take over. they won against the empire united once its just making it easier to do it again. if you join the Imperials you put a chance to take back what the Thalmor stole. why not try to take back the other provinces? because the Nords are the strongest warriors out of the other provinces along with the fact that some of them know the Voice making them all the stronger. if you join the Storm cloaks then your dooming your self to be the servants of the Thalmor.

another thing you cant win the war against the high elves for the Storm Cloaks realistically and by realistically i mean it wouldn't make sense in the lore. Just because your Dragon Born doesn't make you invincible and invulnerable.

> although he claims to be against the Aldmeri Dominion, he doesn't seem to be taking any action against them.

Because that's not part of his mandate. He's a legion general, not the emperor, and his orders are to put down the Stormcloak rebellion, not to start a new war against the Thalmor. Until the Empire decides otherwise, he's bound to uphold the terms of the WG Concordat, whether he likes it or not. Likewise, while he isn't as direct about it as Rikke, he shares her sentiments in his post-war comments.

That could be a valid point, and one that I really should have considered, however, I was of the understanding that Tullius is under Elisif's command. After doing a bit more research the only relevant information that I was able to find was in the UESP article on Elisif the Fair, in which it reads "She has misgivings about entrusting the war effort to General Tullius, but doesn't see any other option".

Link to UESP article on Elisif:
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Elisif_the_Fair

The Jarl of Markarth is the one that says he offered the Talos worship deal. Not Ulfric.

Actually, when a Thalmor patrol attacked me, Legionaires patrolling nearby helped me kill the Thalmor. http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/imageshare/images/1673978-1323679276.jpg (My character is the mage on the left)

I incited them into combat by ending dialogue after I asked them "What's wrong with Talos?"


Although, this could be Gameplay and Story segregation, with the Legion faction taking precedence over the Thalmor faction.

Ulfric did not attack the imperium. He attacked the high king of skyrim. Tullius was the one that brought his army to skyrim. Why? Because Ulfric did not want skyrim to be ruled by the empire's puppet king. It was a challenge to authority that the empire would not accept. They could have just let skyrim rule itself and remain an ally. They chose to send Tullius instead wasting manpower and resources.

He goes well beyond just not taking any action. He cooperates with them.

General Tullius is weak. At the end he cowards behind a woman in defeat while Ulfric stormcloak the other hand accepted his faith and took it like a man.

Tullius knew how bad the thalmor was and yet he was still using up all of the man power to fight against the very same group of people who was fighting against the thalmor, which the empire surrendered when they signed the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:White-Gold_Concordat which banned the worship of talos. I mean come on WTF! Thats a clear violation of human rights.

Sorry but the imperials are brainless as they're basically the puppet of the thalmor. Ulfric at least has the balls.

Oh and this is for fun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN5BGueTNUc

> When they demand he turn over a prisoner, he does. Then he tells his
> people to shut up about it and dont ask questions. Read imperial missive.

Yes, because that's what he's required to do under the terms of the WGC, and while he does anticipate that the WGC will eventually be renounced, it's his job to uphold and enforce it in the meantime (regardless of whether he personally agrees with it - he's sworn to uphold the emperor and the empire's laws, and right now it's the law).

Rebel scum!
You are blinded by the Thalmor into killing soldiers of Talo's empire!
Stormcloak victory is Thalmor victory!
Only a true son of Talos can see that!

Where do you get that WGC requires that he turn over any prisoner they ask for, and then keep it a secret? I never heard that said or implied anywhere. If true, thats worse than the part about banning Talos worship.

Ulfric hides behind his right hand as well when you attack on the side of the imperials

another thing that is interesting is when you kill Ulfric he drops a enchanted sword labeled the sword of cowardice. and if you pay attention you notice he does actually hide behind his right hand. also please keep in mind ulfric is a solder and Tulius is a strategist making your response even more invalid to the subject matter


i know he attacked the high king but that just proves my point further. even if the empire didn't get involved there would still be a civil war. the empire set people to quell it because skyrim is still a province of the empire its not the general that calls this shot there are superiors who do this.

another thing if skyrim is divided there is less a chance to survive another war against the thalmor

Both Ulfic and Tullius join in on their respective fights. The difference is, Tullius has already given up by that point, whereas Ulfric has not.

Stormcloaks

First let me dispell the racism claim. Every race in Tamrial is racist. Argonians are for Argonians, High Elves for High Elves, and so on. Them being for Nords on Nord homeland is hardly any worse than what the other racists do and are doing in their homeland.

Now for some good reasons
1) They didn't try to lop off my head for no reason even after it was explained I wasn't on a list. That is kind of important to me when choosing whom I'm going to work for.
2) Even though I'm an Imperial I expierence no racism from them.
3) They pay and are a bit more transparent than the empire. You can tell you are just an important person standing there for photo op moments to make Olfric look good and I'm okay with that becuase he says I'm important.
4) The Empire is Weak! Corrupt! Worse of all Pathetic. The Emperor was pretty cool though in the Dark Brotherhood questline.
5) Respect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9Bk7XzagcA Ulfric took it like a man while on the other hand...
http://youtu.be/sK9S5h3w8ss on 1:54
What man hides behind a woman and gives up like that? Hes unable to take the heat.

Ulfric did most of the talk while the other side Rikke did. I might as well call Rikke a general since she has more balls then Tullius.

I can't seem to bring myself to join the legion. Every time I start a new game thinking I'm going to, the whole trying to cut my head off in the beginning thing just turns me off to it.

Yeah and General dike-head was there to witness the execution too. He was going to let (insert your dragonborn name) die even know he/she wasn't on the execution list.

The Stormcloaks all the way. As Phasmatis said, they did not try to chop my dome off after they found out I was not their enemy. My characters tend to take a thing like people trying to murder them personally...

Beyond that, the Empire is done. It is a corpse that is already falling to the ground. Signing the White-Gold Concordant was an act of pure idiocy. It gave the Thalmor in diplomacy what they could not gain through force of arms. The Thalmor failed in all their objectives in the Great War. They did not conquer Hammerfell, they did not conquer Cyrodiil. They were left right back where they started when the dust settled. Except afterward they had lost an entire army in Cyrodiil, then lost even more troops in the 5 year long war they lost against the Redguard in Hammerfell. The Redguards who fought and defeated the Thalmor all by themselves, after the Empire had thrown them aside like yesterday's laundry. Now both sides lick their wounds. However, this gives the humans the distinct advantage. For they will win a war of attrition. SImple breeding is why. 18 years after the end of the Great War, all of the human nations will be right back up to full strength. It will take the elven nations centuries to do the same. A few more Great Wars, and there won't be any more Altmer or Bosmer left alive. The humans will suffer, but will bounce back, as always.

The Empire has shown it lacks the insight, and just plain will, to fight the war against the Thalmor to its inevitable conclusion. The Nords on the other hand, are different. They still have the warrior spirit that led their ancestors to exterminate the elves in Skyrim (well, excepting those guys who took an arrow to the knee...). Skyrim gaining its independence is just the first step in a resurgence of Nordic power. Afterward it is primed to lead an alliance of humans against the Thalmor, and wipe them out for once and all. How is that? They have the Dragon-Born after all, the obvious choice for the new High King of Skyrim (sorry Ulfric, but you aren't the dragon-slayer who saved the world). Not to mention the Dragon-Born has legal claim to the throne of Cyrodiil. That would smooth over the Nordic conquest of Cyrodiil. Even aside from the Dragon-Born, in a few years Skyrim can raise an army of Thu'um users. Ulfric is just the first. If he can learn it, there is no reason they cannot train more. Forget the Greybeards. Those doddering old fools can sit on their mountain and collect spiderwebs while they do nothing, as they have for thousands of years. With an army of Thu'umsters, the remnants of Alinor and Valenwood simply do not stand a chance. Even without them, it is only a matter of time before the weight of human numbers simply overwhelms the elves.

FOR THE EMPIRE!!! Though I dislike Titus Mede II... But there is a solution to that I believe.

True, but I think both sides are being stupid in a way. Why not end the war and weakining each other only for the Thalmor to see an opening and take it? The Altmer see themselves as Gods and believe wiping out man would help their claim.

I choose Empire. I feel with all things considered, it is the safer choice. It guarantees two at least allied provinces and a combined, organized military with proven leadership (and mages). And because I'd rather not ride my hopes on a wild card like Ulfric.

You were caught with St
You act like the Empire went and caught you while you were fishing or something, rather than being caught with Stormcloak High Command.

It's not true at all.

The presence of either faction in the region is the sole reason why the Thalmor are there.

Either way the Civil War ends up, the Thalmor are going to take a loss from it.

Let's say the Empire wins: The Empire gains resources and has a steadier hold on their lands. This puts them into a powerful enough position to fight the Thalmor. (If that's even possible... The Empire's government is probably filled with Aldmeri Dominion supporters)

Let's say the Stormcloaks Win: The Thalmor's main ally is crippled, and while the Stormcloaks are a group that could be defeated by the Thalmor (This is considering they don't make a single alliance, which is rubbish because they will probably establish an alliance with Hammerfell), the Stormcloaks have a different view than the Empire. They will fight the Thalmor ferociously, regardless of what happens.

The Thalmor get hurt either way. Ulfric and the Empire's presence in Skyrim are both benefiting the Thalmor.

Just gotta pick what you think is the lesser evil.

I prefer the stormcloaks.
Also isnt thalmor the real racist here?