You could see it this way, but remember: The Civil War begun because the Nords are split. About 50/50 seem to support either side, at least among those who give their expression. Most others are either loyal to their hold or family.

Not really. You can ignore the quest line, and if you pursue the MQ you'll be able to broker a cease fire, but that's just a temporary measure while you deal with the dragon crisis.

I think my biggest problem is the empire is playing the long game. Thalmor excel at long game strategies. They waited 150 years to make their move, and they did it nearly flawlessly.(Faulty info from a hammerfell agent was what screwed them over in the war) The empire should not have survived. Decianus unwittingly saved the empire when he left "invalids" in hammerfell. The Thalmor have been gathering intel and subterfuging for 30 years again now. The empire has 1 less province to count on. It's only advantage is that it is expecting an attack. But the Thalmor already know this and their current troop count and deployments. They also appear to be bribing some of the officials in the high council. Getting this war going again is going to be a political mess.

Ulfric wants to start the fighting ASAP. Don't give the thalmor a chance to plan. Don't allow them time to gather intel. Keep hitting them until they break. The thalmor are terrible at the short game.

Most race's homelands have already abandoned the empire or are actually against it.

Yep, blame that long Elven life span, problem is the Thalmor have had a chance to plan, they waited a 150 years of it as you said, and probably been planning a lot longer, and apparently they got enough troops to spare for there things like Talos worshipper hunting. The've hunted down and killed all but two members of the blades that you know of.

And they signed a peace "treaty" with the Empire that pretty much gives them everything they want, including allowing their agents to operate within imperial borders without repercussions. That's not a treaty thats a conditional surrender.

But as bad as things are for the empire, and independent Skyrim would be worse, especially if Ulfric is planning to immediately lunch a suicidal assult on the Altmer's home island and waste whatever troops he has left after this long and bloody civil war. I think I read somewhere that it's a bad idea to mount an attack unless you overnumber the defensive forces 2 to 1. Not to mention the Altmer are very good at making things go boom. Which makes things all the more harder if you can take out 10 charging nord warriors with a single fireball spell.

Here's what I'm thinking, if Bethesda hasn't thought of this already, make the move as Dovahkin to become the next emporer, rebuild the blades and restore a dragonborn line to the throne. You're that wild element that the Thalmor didn't acticipate, use it. The Empire, as you and some others have mentioned is on its last legs, but you could restore it. Which is all the more reason to join the Imperial cause, it would be far easier and less bloodier to do all this if your seen as a hero of the empire then the hero of a renegade province.

The stormcloacks just want a good war they have no sense of what they try to stand for.

I don't want to restore it. It's time for something different, like an alliance of free nations.

Thanks for the memories, Pax Septima. Now the rest of you pretenders go home.

Racism is natural, religion is not

I'm not racist due to society these days shaping my views but it is a natural instinct..

I probably didnt look into it as deeply as others, i just figured that men (nords, redguards etc) would be stormcloak favourable and elves/orcs/argonians/khajjitt would be imperial favourable. It seems like a natural devide for me.

Its almost as clear as using a nord or orc as a warrior, a dunmer, bosmer or khajjitt as a thief, a dunmer or argonian as an assassin and an altmer as a mage. These make sense to me as they've followed a similar patern in lore and although some deviate its generally the case.

I chose a bosmer so i naturally went as a thief archer and sided with the imperial. On my next playthrough i plan to play an argonian assassin/alchemist and on another i have planned i want to go pure 2hd nord. The nord will go with the stormcloaks and champions and the argonian will go with the DB and imperials.

I was all for Stormcloaks until the incident at Markarth at the Shrine of Talos - now I'm all Empire.

Empire, for the simple fact they just want to put skyrim in line with the empire so they can kick The Dominion's ass.

Empire, because for once I want to root for the guys in charge and not be the ragtad rebel.

Stormcloaks are not ragtag rebels. They actually have the advantage in the civil war as most of the nords (most of skyrim) support Ulfric. For the empire it was an uphill battle that general what's his name complained about, calling the war a 'side show'. But fighting with Ulfric is only beneficial to skryim short term. And gives the Thalmor an advantage. But putting all of skyrim back in the empire's pocket to fight the Thalmore with after their little truce ends? That's lasting.

That and Ulfric's rule is very narrow minded where other races are concerned. Or rather, won't fight for them like the empire will.

I know they're not 'ragtad rebels'. I'm just saying that to insult them.

But yeah, I agree with you about the Empire. Only together, united, can there be any hope of stopping the Thalmor.

Exactly. : D Plus I really do like the imperials a lot better than the nords. The nords are a proud people, but I grow bored of pride quickly.

Ok, you could do that, but get crowned emporer first, be easier to change things once you're in charge.

As depressing as it sounds either an imperial victory or a stormcloak victory by itself, though not the most favored outcome, is still a win/win for the Thalmor, Why? because when the dust settles and the imperials and stormcloaks are done killing each other. They'll be less legions/nord warriors to deal with when they make their move. Also an imperial victory well mean their troops that are already there will have free rein to continue to cause havoc. They've fixed this game pretty good, well that is until you came along.

Doesn't work like that. The Dominion's army is still shattered and its pretty obvious from the Civil War questlines that if you help out one faction that faction is going to sustain very little losses as a whole.

I encourage you to fight for the Stormcloaks. It suits better for my peoples needs to conquest Tamriel..

I sort of disagree. The empire had scant troops to commit to their campaign. As the general said, skyrim was just: 'a side show' for the actual empire. They probably didn't expect to win it. But the fact they did (if you sided with them) probably throws a wrench into the Thalmor's plans. They'd have definitely preferred Ulfric to win. Because Ulfric wouldn't concern himself with the troubles of the empire, and they would just move to conquer him, in time, after toppling the imperials. But if Ulfric loses, the empire gets to add a whole freaking nation of nords to fight against the Thalmor. In siding with the empire, I feel like I really spit in their eye. If you fight the Thalmor near imperial guards, the guards actually help you attack them. They are not happy with the terms of their truce. And anticipate the war will continue. Ideally, they'll have the man power and resources to draw from when that time comes, something the Thalmor are probably cursing.

In essence, if the empire gets wind of the fact the dragon born sided with them to restore order to Skyrim, they are probably crapping their pants with joy. Because they are going to get to add a full nation to their resources to beat back the Thalmor.

Like they did before, now even weaker than they were then?

No, that's missing the point. I wouldn't mind seeing my dovahkiin as queen of Skyrim, but no interest in the job of emperor.

They really do need a new emperor to reunite the empire. No one like cyrodiil anymore.

Celan, I don't think you are fully appreciating the advantages of having an entire and extra country to pull resources and manpower from in a conflict, as opposed to not having an extra one at all. Yes, Skyrim got scuffed up. But ultimately it behooves the empire to have skkyrim back in line and can pose serious problems for the Thalmor.

While it was probably meant to be depicted as a bloody civil war, it's not as if every single able bodied nordish man and woman were involved. With a solid soverign state, the imperials can draw a lot more nords to their cause against a common elven enemy than Ulfric could ever hope to do in a conflict that would put brother against brother, nord against nord. Ulfric hated the Thalmor. Just look at his reactions to Maven during the peace talk. No matter what all nords thought about the empire, it's likely (since many of them backed Ulfric) more than ever will unite under a banner to beat back the Thalmor.

You should read the topic more fully and see how your argument falls apart. So that way I don't have to sit and repeat it.

Locked in 3, 2, 1 . . .

I have to go with Imperial because I like the Jarl Balgruuf and feel some loyalty to him, so I really cannot side with Ulfric.