The Dunmer say that wasn't that bad until Ulfric came into power. Or in the very least, it got worse for them after he did.

Who exactly said that? Id like to hear it.

If by taking them in you mean forcing them to work in a slum and harassing them twenty four seven, then yeah, they took them in, then go to solitude, where everyone lives together just fine, without animosity.

have you even talked to ANYONE in this game,?! Do we need to post mathematical equations proving gravity as well?

No one Ive talked to has claimed that Ulfric made it worse. Some blame Ulfric but not once has the claim been made in game that he made things worse. If you cant answer the question then fine. dont.

So why dont they go to Solitude then? Its only like a 3 hour walk.

Ambarys Rendar, proprietor of the New Gnisis Cornerclub. It's one of the possible greetings when you talk to him. You may have to try a few times to get him to say it.

That said, Windhelm is the only Stormcloak city that really has such problems regarding Dunmer. Winterhold has some prejudice, but it's more against mages than elves. And I don't think the Dunmer ever acutally complain about the Stormcloak movement, they seem pretty neutral on it. It seems to be just Ulfric and some of his followers in Windhelm they have a problem with.

As for why they went to Skyrim, it may be because of the mountain range separating Morrowind from Cyrodiil, thus the easiest place to go to, by land or by sea, was to Skyrim.

Edit: Ambarys also mentions that when he makes enough money, he'll return to Morrowind.

Ok, fair enough. He also says something else thats interesting.

Me: "There have been murders in Windhelm"?
Ambarys: "Until someone takes a Dunmer, I let Windhelm take care of its own problems".

Sounds like the attitudes are mutual. The Dunmer wont help Windhelm and get little help in return.

And as far as the other holds go - have you seen any khajiit in them?

Aval Atheron also mentions that Ambarys Rendar is extreme in his views.

Right, because the ablitiy to give flowery speeches and platitudes are the true measure of a man. If you buy that, then you'll buy any ad campaign your typical politician uses when he's running for president, or prime minister, or whatever elected official you have in your country of birth.

At least, Tulius is honest, he tells you striaight up what he's about, he may not be pretty, but at least he doesn't waste your time with "good old fashion values" B.S. He's not a politician looking for approval, he's a general with a dirty job that needs get done, He just wants to do it and go home. Like any other soldier stationed in a foreign land would in his position.

Try talking to Ulfric when he's away from his generals and not talking about Nord sacrifiices blah, blah, blah Every time he greets you he'll treat you like some toadie not worthy enough to lick his boots.


I'm pretty sure some of those farmers going to join up with the imperial legion you meet on the road are dunmer. Also the only Stormcloak to me that seems to lack any prejedice when it comes to the elves is Law-Giver. Yeah I know that Mular Seloth is house Steward of Winterhold, but to me he comes off as less of a Steward and more like Korir's personal house negro. Plus it's not as if there were a lot of nords living in Whiterun lining up for the job to begin with.


So you should just turn a blind eye to how the rest of your people are treated simply because your an Elf/Argoinian/Khajit that happens to be Dragonborn? What happens when they no longer need you?

Mind pointing out these numerous lies that Ulfric's making? Ulfric does follow through on what he's said he's going to do. By the end of the Civil War he's preparing forces to attack Summerset.

Tullius and honest do not go together. Lies to Balgruuf, and lies about the duel with Torygg.

You should try the same with Tullius


Some of them are heading to windhelm to join the stormcloaks too. Mular acts the same way with the other jarl too, whose housecarl doesn't like him.



I don't see any problem with it whatsoever. The dunmer in windhelm were given 180 years of free land, no taxes, free government. You wonder why windhelm has money issues? That's an entire half of your city not paying for upkeep or anything. The jarl of the hold asks for their help and they refuse. Given how the empire didn't care when the argonians were murdering them en masse, I doubt they'd mind a second genocide in windhelm. That'd free up a lot of land for Ulfric. People who actually would be governed by the jarl and support the hold. Yet Ulfric doesn't do that since he isn't the monstrous baby-killer imperials try to make him out to be.

You have read that out of context, that wasn't my point at all.

That wasnt a speech to his subjects, it was a conversation with his best friend.
I did just that. I asked him about the dunmer. He told me he is sorry they are having a hard time of it but they have to understand that he has more important problems with the war going on. He did not come off as racist or demeaning.

http://i.imgur.com/2eoJ9.png

(http://eatfun.deviantart.com/gallery/)

I think that depends on whether it spins off into a discussion of specific quests or remains, as it was started, mostly a discussion of lore. It is no spoiler that there is a civil war between the Stormcloaks and the Empire over the worship of Talos. You learn that during the opening video while you are riding the cart and waiting to start the game.

The base fact that there is a civil war isnt a spoiler. But the question of who is right cannot be debated without posting information that cannot be gained except through playing the game and exploring the world. Isnt that what spoiler means - information given out that is supposed to be found through playing?

That's simply not true. Even with the empire as a proxy, the Thalmor simply don't have the muscle to bring all of Tamriel under their dominion. And Black Marsh would roll them if they ever decided to show up at their door step.

Let the Empire die; they're weak and are no longer relevant. They've been on the decline for the past two hundred years and have absolutely no chance of conquering all of Tamriel under their banner again. They had a good run but it's time for Cyradiil to have a new civilization take root. All great empires/civilizations in history die at some point because they have a life cycle all their own, Cyradiil should be no different in that regard. To allow a civilization to continually cheat death is bad lore in my opinion.

Hi all,
While playing the game and trying to decide which side of the war I might want to join my mind was full of Union and Confederacy, States Rights vs Federal rights, etc. but I don't see much discussion of these things. Whether you like one particular commander or leader is to me a small part of the equation. Do you believe in strong central control of everything or a loose confedercy which binds together miliarily only for common protection? (NATO?)
In the USA the founding fathers want us to have freedom of religion but that has morphed into the present lawyer dominated state where they try to guarantee freedom FROM religion which is probably not what the founding fathers wanted. Suppressing Talos is suppressing freedom of religion.
Everyone gets on South Carolina for seceding first but did you know Massachussets was going to secede first? Until Lincoln came along with his views of strong federal government and stfling the press while he shoved it down our throats every state believed it could secede at any time.
It is these thoughts running through my mind that makes me side with the Stormcloaks, not the personal feelings about Ulfric or whomever. In this light the Thalmor are like an outside force (the U.N. perhaps) having undue influence on our self governance.
When tyranny rises its ugly head we have a duty to oppose it. Jefferson thought a revolution should occur about every 20 years or so.

(steps off soapbox)

Much as I would love to argue this topic, since there are gaps a mile wide, no IRL politics allowed here.

Hi, It wasn't meant to be an all encompassing argument, just an discussion starter. If the IRL politics is verbotten, then when I get a chance I will resubmit from a game point of view where I will stipulate that my imperial character has seen the light and realizes that most aspects of government should be closer to the people, not handed down by distant decree. A simple philosophy where aliances are only entered into for common defense and to ensure basic civil rights, not to turn over every aspect of life to an ever growing bureaucracy.

Oh I didn't say lying, though most politicians do that, I'm saying he's doing a lot of grandstanding.

As for invading Summerset. Yeah, that's going to go well, as Black Spider mentioned, Summerset isle hasn't gotten plot screwed since, well really since this series began. Granted being a near fantasy 3rd Reich isn't going to help Summersets better tourist bureu, but they've had hundereds of years of being left to there own devices. The didn't fight a bloody cilvil war for the last several years. In short they've likely got a lot of troops on that isle, a lot more then Skyrim is going to field, if they can afford to send troops to trapse all over the empire looking for Talos worshippers, they probably have enough troops to hold there Island, maybe even goostep there way accross another provence.


Ah, you are correct I misspoke, I meant when it comes dealing with things he's a straight up no nonsense kind of guy doing whatever is needed to get the job done, even if it means playing dirty.


Oh I'll admit he's not going to be the guy who takes you up on your offer to go fishing this Friday. You don't hire someone like, Micheal Hogan for a role that involves tea parties and pleasent small talk. No you you hire him to be that gruff guy who probably drinks quite a bit and doesn't have time for any crap, especially yours. But fortunately he doesn't have to be diplomatic, they have Elisif for that, even the stormcloaks like her, or at least don't have any real beef with her. And she's fairly cordial to you when you first meet.

The thing is when he's not making grandious speeches in his hall, and showing his arogance to you privately.


Really? I didn't notice when it came to the farmers, I guess I'll have to do less fast traveling. As for Mular, the housecarl doesn't have to like him, he's not the one in charge. The Jarl is.


I don't think the Imperials were in a postion to do much about it unfortunately. Which doesn't really help their case here, but further fractioning the Empire isn't going to help against the Thalmor threat.

Yeah, I dunno about you but I don't usually have long winded fluffly speeches when I'm haging with my friends, nah he's granstanding as to the second bit. Really? he he sounded pretty condencening to me when I first talk to him, granted it was subtle, but it was there, I didn't get a speech option for the Dunmer, I guess I have to look into it further.

You know what I just realized something, isn't it possible not to join either side, ie isn't there a third option? I thought I read somewhere there was.

If you are a nord then you should be a stormcloak

anyone else should be imperial

In the end, I'm joining the Empire. I think they stand a better chance against Thalmor. I'm all for an independent Skyrim but not when there still a Thalmor threat. They're the real threat. They need to unify under one banner instead being divided by the civil war (which is just benefiting the enemy).

I went with the Stormcloaks on my last character and all I got was some lousy armor and a nickname screw them I'm going with the Imperials this time

Stormcloaks are the way to go trust me... The imperials wear skirts :s...