Master of the Voice Vs Master of Magic? : V - Skyrim

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:15 am

Magical protection doesn't count for anything when the world around you is being obliterated...

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:47 pm

How bout this one.

1. Slow time shout
2. Run behind mage
3. Fry with shouts

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:05 am

i use the vanilla mechanics and thru clever trickery, i have both infinite magic and no recharge meter for shouts and im on xbox...also have a master ring which grants my master mage infinite magic ha

the mage would win easily...you cant shout when paralyzed :wink:

You can't cast when frozen solid.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:16 am

I think this is more about which one is more popular rather then an actual battle. Because it just doesn't seem plausible to believe that the th'uum is stronger then magic.

Well mister hipster mage, why is it not plausible that the Thu'um is stronger than magic?

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:51 pm

Mages have Silence spells..

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Silence

Mages win, because magic is just better.

Also shouts are ~~too mainstream~~ overrated.

How bout this one.

1. Slow time shout
2. Run behind mage
3. Fry with shouts

Magic Resistace, and Atronach. Absorbs all his pitiful shouts, And even if it does do damage. The Mage heals him/herself with restoration magic.

What now?

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:51 pm

Mages have Silence spells..

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Silence

Mages win, because magic is just better.

Also shouts are ~~too mainstream~~ overrated.

Magic Resistace, and Atronach. Absorbs all his pitiful shouts, And even if it does do damage. The Mage heals him/herself with restoration magic.

What now?

Shouts have been called underpowered and now overrated?

How can something that is underpowered be overrated? It's like a 100BHP Fiesta being rated at 250BHP? Or it's?

IMO, Thu'um would win. Just cos.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:16 pm

Depends, is this from a Lore point of view or gameplay? With unlimited manna the Mage has a real advantage, a constant spell ward that blocks any direct shout in one hand, whilst casting powerful spells in the other. The voice would be at a great disadvantage, especially given the cooldown time between shouts.

From a lore's perspective, the Voice can do quite a few epic feats that traditional magics could never hope to match.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:28 pm

Thu'um would win. Just cos.

Nice logic there. I never said shouts were overpowered, but they are overrated.

The other magic schools can counter anything a shout master can do.

Become Etherial?

Mage casts Dispel.

Storm call?

Absorb lighting/Reflect Magic/Damage(The dumb Nord gets hit with his own shout).

Unrelenting Force?

A low level ward will suffice.

Some other dude was talking about how some Shout master would just destroy the world around him. Right.. As if the mage would allow him to do that much damage.

Nord starts ranting with his stupid shouts. Mage gets annoyed, and casts Silence on him.

What now?

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:58 pm

Nice logic there. I never said shouts were overpowered, but they are overrated.

The other magic schools can counter anything a shout master can do.

Become Etherial?

Mage casts Dispel.

Storm call?

Absorb lighting/Reflect Magic/Damage(The dumb Nord gets hit with his own shout).

Unrelenting Force?

A low level ward will suffice.

Some other dude was talking about how some Shout master would just destroy the world around him. Right.. As if the mage would allow him to do that much damage.

Nord starts ranting with his stupid shouts. Mage gets annoyed, and casts Silence on him.

What now?

Dispel cancels out shouts? o.O

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:43 pm

Dispel cancels out shouts? o.O

A Shout is just another kind of magic(which is why a ward can block it so easily, and why the Atronach perk works against it).

Dispel is a spell that stops, and cancels magic. Yeah.. Become Etherial isn't going to do [censored].

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:55 pm

Hard to say, both the Thu'um and magic have some impressive feats to them.

Something I think may be a deciding factor more than the shouts and spells themselves would be that a master Tongue would kill anyone that is not trained in the voice simply by speaking, and if it didn't kill the mage it would cause destruction around them. That alone would give the Thu'um Master an advantage.

And there is the Become Etheral shout I am unsure if the Master Mage could match.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:28 pm

A Shout is just another kind of magic(which is why a ward can block it so easily, and why the Atronach perk works against it).

Dispel is a spell that stops, and cancels magic. Yeah.. Become Etherial isn't going to do [censored].

From a gameplay perspective or lore? Because I can't imagine Talos carving out the Empire if such basic spells could render his entire power ineffective.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:46 pm

Hard to say, both the Thu'um and magic have some impressive feats to them.

Something I think may be a deciding factor more than the shouts and spells themselves would be that a master Tongue would kill anyone that is not trained in the voice simply by speaking, and if it didn't kill the mage it would cause destruction around them. That alone would give the Thu'um Master an advantage.

Mage casts Silence.

And there is the Become Etheral shout I am unsure if the Master Mage could match.

Mage casts dispel.

From a gameplay perspective or lore? Because I can't imagine Talos carving out the Empire if such basic spells could render his entire power ineffective.

Both. Dragon Shouts are magic. Period.

Also I don't think it was his shouts that helped him create the empire. I would think that his army of followers probably did most of the work.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:16 am

Personally I am not sure if dispel would work against it, as it prevent your body from being affected by anything. IIRC spells pas right through you when it is activated and that would include a dispel spell.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:28 pm

Mage casts Silence.

Mage casts dispel.

I think your oversimplifying the Thu'um, from a lore perspective I don't think a mage would no sooner stop the Voice then he could stop the magics of a Daedric prince of God. If it was that simple Humans wouldn't have needed the Voice to fight the Dragons on an equal playing field.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:09 pm

Depends, is this from a Lore point of view or gameplay? With unlimited manna the Mage has a real advantage, a constant spell ward that blocks any direct shout in one hand, whilst casting powerful spells in the other. The voice would be at a great disadvantage, especially given the cooldown time between shouts.

From a lore's perspective, the Voice can do quite a few epic feats that traditional magics could never hope to match.

he specifically said lore shouts with no cooldowns.

Why do people keep overlooking this?

And reflect magic wouldnt work against stormcall. It woul reflect it back at the storm. That's one of the advantages of shouts. You tell the weather what to do, you're not controlling the weather.

And Silence works on spellcasters. It doesn't literally stop you from speaking. I don't think it would prevent shouting.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:27 pm

I think your oversimplifying the Thu'um, from a lore perspective I don't think a mage would no sooner stop the Voice then he could stop the magics of a Daedric prince of God. If it was that simple Humans wouldn't have needed the Voice to fight the Dragons on an equal playing field.

Why don't you think so. Why do you believe that shouts wouldn't be affected by magic? Please give me something other than "They're DRAGON shouts! They're powerful, and awesome!".

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:47 pm

Personally I am not sure if dispel would work against it, as it prevent your body from being affected by anything. IIRC spells pas right through you when it is activated and that would include a dispel spell.

I think dispel is the exception. Considering that a mage who's affected by a silence spell shouldn't be able to cast magic at all. Yet dispel is the exception to that rule. It always works, silenced or not.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:47 pm

And I think the whole point behind the ethereal shout is that you aren't really there anymore. It just leaves behind a sort of placeholder while the matter that makes up your body is not there.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:53 pm

Why don't you think so. Why do you believe that shouts wouldn't be affected by magic? Please give me something other than "They're DRAGON shouts! They're powerful, and awesome!".

It is indeed magic, but it is not the entirely the same as the magic a mage would wield as I understand it, hence the need for Kyne to grant the mortals the ability to use it when they were still under the rule of the Dragons.

Also from a lore perspective magic is not as simple as you put it. If it was you could open any magical seal with a simple dispel spell, which is not the case(see the Benerus Manor in Oblivion for example). I don't think a simple dispel spell would work against Become Etheral.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:39 pm

Thu'um doesn't come from Magnus or the stars. It's something entirely different than "just another school of magic". It's more like the ability to command the earthbones, forcing them to your will using only your words.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:29 pm

And I think the whole point behind the ethereal shout is that you aren't really there anymore. It just leaves behind a sort of placeholder while the matter that makes up your body is not there.

Fine. The Shouter casts Become Etherial. The Mage casts reflect/abosrb magic/damage. There. Neither fighter can hurt each other until the spell runs out.

In the meantime the Mage casts Chameleon on himself, plus levitation for good measure. The mage is now invisible, and can fly. What now?

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:44 pm

Fine. The Shouter casts Become Etherial. The Mage casts reflect/abosrb magic/damage. There. Neither fighter can hurt each other until the spell runs out.

In the meantime the Mage casts Chameleon on himself, plus levitation for good measure. The mage is now invisible, and can fly. What now?

Aura whisper and and one of the ranged shouts, or just Storm Call. Shot down from the skies, or trapped in the storm.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:36 am

and and one of the ranged shouts, or just Storm Call. Shot down from the skies, or trapped in the storm.

Reflect Damage

Aura whisper

Fine, the Mage is now detected. The Mage proceeds to casts calm on the shouter, he/she then summons two Daedra Lords to wreck your [censored]. The shouter stands there like an idiot, while the angry Daedra kick his ass.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:59 pm

That's why they don't normally allow vs threads. It devolves into what appears to be little kids playing.