We have a great (ha, relatively) education system, and for that I am thankful, but not proud.



Alan Turing and the pilots of the Battle of Britain were fighting, whether they knew it or not, for ideals. It just so happened that those ideals were packaged as an easy to swallow pill by the media of the time - "Britain". Were any of them actually fighting for the island itself? That would be pretty silly...

Now if they are fighting for ideals, does it make any sense to be proud of them just because we share the same or similar ideals? Should we be proud when our ideals spread? Glad maybe, but not proud unless we are the ones spreading them.



It is immaterial just so long as it enshrines human rights above all else.



Nope. Maybe I'd be glad of the stimulation the economy would receive? I don't know.



No they don't. They represent themselves. The only thing that has got them where they are is personal talent and luck (so arguably just luck). The ground they were born on may have been instrumental, but not because it is labelled British. It is instrumental because it magically gave them superior rights to nurturing and education and training than another piece of ground in Africa. Those people don't represent you. You don't have anything in common except that you've been through broadly the same system and they're doing better than you in their field. It's reflected glory at best.



Actually our society won't let me vote yet but sure, you're talking about individual achievements. Of course I can be proud of myself for making an informed voting decision and I am proud of myself for the voluntary work I do, but am I proud of Normans for conquering England and making a massive impact on the country's heritage and, eventually down the line, me? No.

*shrugs* No idea they just are.

Look at how women are treated in some cultures in africa and the mid east.
Now look at the west.

You seriously cant say they are both equal, one is better than the other.

Unless Britain is planning on expanding its territory across the globe, once again, I think its days of relative greatness are over.

Honestly, though... Britain just can't regain the power it once held, as far as I can see.

How about because sacrificing for your family, and then others not of your family, was an evolutionary advantage that helped propel humans to the top of the heap?



So the West has a better culture than parts of Africa and Mid East just because it is more progressive in that one area?

Yeah, I sorta blame our current issues on influence by other cutures/countries. And a certain politician M.T.

I dont think it will get better. Why are you optimistic ? You really think people are suddenly going to change ? Everyone is branwahsed or afraid to do anything, votes are either labour (fails), tory (****s) and lib dem (sellouts). Nothing will change.

You're judging them on your culture's scale. That's the real answer.

Nobody is arguing that repression of women is correct, but you shouldn't judge an entire culture on some extremists. That'd be like somebody judging the whole of the UK by the teenage pregnancy rate and the BNP.

I am under no illusions about Britain regaining the territories it once had, what I do hope for however is a time when Britain has the balls to stand up to other countries and say NO. Why should Britain be subject to laws passed in Belgium?

The pepole of this country were promised a referendum on whether we wanted to remain as part of the EU and what happened the government went back on a promise in their Manifesto (in this case the Labour party)..... and the people of this country did nothing, we bent over and took it like we always do. Whether or not the majority of people would have voted yes or no is irrellivent the point is it never happened.

Modern Democracy is [censored], at least here in Britain

This is getting too political. Please stop talking about the EU or this will get locked. This is about national pride and whether it is justified. If you have nothing left to say on the topic please don't derail it.

I won't go into specifics, but I think that can be said to apply to more than just Britain.

Blind faith I suppose.

Why people only vote for the same 3 parties I don't know, they are all so similar that they may as well be one anyway. Maybe the BNP is too far in one direction but it needs for a completly new party to be elected for this country to change.

Obviously it won't change overnight but in time hopefully people will realise the crap system we have now with the 3 main parties needs to change.

This is true. I still feel patriotism is useless though. I mean, I'm not going to be proud because of other people's achievements, that's silly, even if they where born in my country.

Direct Democracy cannot function on a large scale. Republicanism has a much longer shelf life (at the cost of less self-governance) but is still eventually plauged by the same problems on a large scale that Democracy is. It is not in the nature of society to work over long distances or with people who are too different and that is what leads to eventual societal decline in every large "empire".

In one area... What exactly can they do better than the UK ?


How can you say they are extremists ? That may be the norm in thier culture. Yes the BNP are extremists, but tbh I see alot more people against them, and alot more vocal. UAF or how about nick griffin on question time ?
While there may only be a minority, im not exactly seeing people trying to change it or vocally opposing it.. Either they dont give a [censored] or they agree with it.

Sorry, missed this.



I see your point here and perhaps I was a little broad earlier on, but I still have not contributed anything to those ideals and will not feel proud of them. Thankful yes, proud no.



I don't think one should be proud of a collective effort. Proud of their own individual part in it perhaps, proud to have been a part of it. But proud of everyone else who took part too? No.



You do realise that people on the other side of the world in countries ravaged by NATO wars are just as ignorant of our culture as you are of theirs? Sure, we know that the BNP aren't representative of the UK zeitgeist, and we know that public opinion on the war and on Islam is deeply divided here, but they don't. In the same way that you don't know what the normal political inclination is for any given country in the Middle East, they don't know what your average, level headed person over here believes. Your ignorance of their culture is born of not being exposed to it. It is not hard to believe that they might be similarly ignorant of our culture because of low exposure, or the wrong exposure.

Family bonds, food, and music? A lot of cultural aspects are highly opinion-based, really, and I feel as though you're ready to just shoot down any aspect of a culture foreign to you.

I quite agree with the OP. There is however, something else I'd add but it might come of as a little extreme.

If our country is worth dying for in a time of war, then let us resolve that what is truly worth living for in time of peace. ~Hamilton Fish

Men love their country, not because it is great, but because it is their own. ~Seneca

Nationalism isn't being proud of the other people, it is being proud of the collective effort.



Definitely food.

Still no.

Jubilant that the effort was successful? Sure. Proud of it? No! It wasn't born of you! You just helped it along.

But, proud of your part? Sure.

The neighbor's dogs attempted a collective effort to leave a surprise in my yard, once, if that's what you mean...

Is British food really that terrible?

mall parties will never win enough votes. Its sad when you choose between the people in power today, and scum like the bnp. Either way I see it Britain is [censored], you just choose how.

I prefer the idea of a monarchy, no pissing about and arguing like children like parliment does, and you could have them specificly trained/educated from a young age to rule/lead a country.


Ok, family I suppose. Its important, but food and music are pointless. A culture can produce great music, but if its morals include barbaric mutilation and they arent that productive technology wise. I dont see them as good/civilised.

Nope, I assume there are cultures I dont mind. But like I said I still see mine as superior to others, other cultures superior to others andd vice versa.


@Seti Yes its terrible, so bland. Its ironic but foreign food tastes better. Still not enough to change my views on a culture though.

^ yeah, because unquestionable autocracy has never been abused before, and you're going to choose the best candidates to rule the country when they're babies because there's so much to distinguish them.

Yeah no.


There's no such thing as quintessentially British food past roast dinners, which are amazing.

Fish and chips also YUM!

Really? That just seems really weird to me, especially if you were a part of it. What good is your tiny part if nobody else comes forward to share in the end goal?
This made me think of when my Mum would say she was proud of me - I don't think it's because she believed it was purely because of her input in raising me and therefore being proud of herself, it's just, pride. I don't get how you can't feel pride in the actions of other people. I remember watching my sister graduate and feeling really proud of her, but I didn't have anything to do with her getting qualified.

Successful? Huh? The whole point is the journey - there is no destination. The work will never be done. We just carry the torch until our children are ready to take it up for us.