The U.S. didn't exactly stop annexing new territory belonging to an existing group until a mere 50 years ago, though. Every new territory was more land that could have been left alone. The origins of Hawaii being a state are the most recent example of overthrowing an indigenous culture for more land... or rather pineapples. I'll bet Hawaiians love the Dole Fruit Company... [/sarcasm]

War...war never changes.

And about dying for my country. I mentioned I would die for my country, not for the government. If we invaded Germany because we wanted their land, I would be fighting for the government. But if they attacked us, I would be fighting for my country. Expansion, in my opinion, does not always mean fighting for one's government (but I can't elaborate with out getting political).

Do I sound a little Enclave-like?

I do not have a sense of nationalism, I have a sense of sectionalism.

Fallout truly is the perfect parody of the United Stated government.

The fundamental basis of Natural Law is that all people are created as equals and that they have two tiers of rights. The first tier are commonly referred to as inalienable, natural, or human rights and cannot be taken away through ANY legal means (i.e. if you violate these rights it is a criminal act making you an enemy to all free people). The second tier consists of all other rights.

One of the rights in the first tier is the right to surrender rights from the second tier in order to form societies (all rights are inherent in each individual). Rights that are surrendered become "powers" of the state (the "state" being the recognized leadership of the society). Some commonly surrendered rights are things like driving (governments make laws restricting how, where, and when we can drive because we have surrendered our right to drive to the government), marriage (again, governments tell us who, when, and how we can be married), and war (most societies only allow the leadership to declare wars).

Once rights are surrendered to a society, governments are usually formed in order to manage the society. One thing you need to know about people is that the powerless always seek power, and the powerful always seek to retain it. Since governments are filled with people, the same rule applies. All governments, regardless of their initial intention (or their understanding of Natural Law) will eventually begin to absorb powers that were not given to them. Most of the time, people won't care as it either has no impact or very little impact on their daily lives. Eventually, the absorbed powers will allow the government to expand to neighboring societies (usually against their will) which will cause a conflict. Most conflicts are resolved through force and in order to get the people of the society to back the government in the conflict, nationalism is employed (this can be anywhere from simple patriotism to genocide and everything in between, the true definition of nationalism is a strong sense of belonging to the society because you are similar and the "enemy" is different).

Eventually, all societies will either have cultural decay (expanding differences between the people of the society leading to internal friction), be conquered by a neighbor and assimilated, or have a Natural Law Event (the government becomes so oppressive that the people enact one of their first tier rights and remove the government from power either through secession or regicide).

This is the historical ebb and flow of all societies.

Actually, the US had annexed Hawaii back in 1898, it just took about 60 years for it to become a state. :shrug: Also, Queen Liluokalani (man, hope I spelled that correctly) fell to an internal revolution (admittedly by mostly Europeans and Americans), and the US initially tried to put her back into power. Then politics got involved, and well, that's never good.

^ Edit-The line below is for the picture above, just incase anyone thinks im talking bout the royals here
Im not supporting murders or anything, but the fella in norway and the others all around the world are shooting the wrong people.



And, I agree with you carbuncle. I have never understood how people can get as attached to a sports team, Calling it "My team" etc. Untill your actually running about with them or own them, Its just another team. Grown men crying because "their" team lost. Honestly never understood it.

Also talked about the royals at work when the wedding was going on. Now, ive not researched this so i could be totally wrong.
The current queen, Did she get voted in to be queen? Did she have to properly work to gain the support and the title?
At least the prime minister had to get voted in.

All she did was fall out a queens fanny.
And we're supposed to have massive respect for her?

Kate Middleton.If william becomes king, she becomes queen consort. (I did wiki that bit )
Because she bent over for william.

Everyone talks about respecting the queen and royals etc.
I respect them no more than i do any other normal working person.

I certainly have never once felt pride because they are on the same island as me.


Edit-


Why should we not just be proud of the world, Why does it have to be our own country.
I saw a good phrase the other day on something about racism. "Theres only one race, The human race"
We're all on the same planet.
I suppose maybe when/if space exploration happens and other races are found, Maybe then we will be saying "Proud to be Earthish" Or whatever we would be

Well, some were destroyed by natural disasters.

Like Atlantis :whistling:

@Morrowind fan.

Even if the guy in Norway had shot the people he was actually mad at, all it would have done is made things worse anyway. Political discussion does nothing it seems, unfortunatly shooting people has an even worse effect. It just adds more to the fire for Martyrs (I call them wackos personally) to excuse their actions.

You're Scottish and you don't know that?

She was born into the position, as are all the royal family

(except marriage, but you seem to have that figured)

Regardless, it's not a good foundation for a country. There's plenty of land, but it feels haunted (not literally haunted... I don't believe in that stuff, but rather it has some history I find a bit disturbing), to me. The name of the town I live in is based on certain Native American oriented remains dug up here. :mellow:

I was pretty confident that was it, but put that in there, just incase, and you missed the bit after where i said all she done was fall out it seems

I was thinking more like the Khmer empire at Angkor Wat or the Cahokian people of the Mississippian culture. A bit more a gradual natural disaster than being swallowed by the sea in a single day and night of misfortune.

Although the fall of Minoan civilization would count (since that is seen as a probable source of the Atlantis story).

Or the Mayan who died out after a 200 year drought on top of having a population to high to be supported by their agricultural capabilities and overhunting of the fauna

I respect her sister. She must have put some effort into getting that body.


I find it funny when she was apparently getting lots of attention. Now googling her one of the first results is "pippa middleton bum" allthough the first result is a less polite way of saying that.

On the brightside they give us money from tourism I suppose.

Not proud of my country (see Location under my name), but I am proud to uphold the ideals that my country was founded upon.

Despite this, I'm not really a "nationalist" per se, but I am a pretty big isolationist. Though this is coming from the guy who wants to live in Montana AWAY from society because all it does is produce trash.


I hope to Shaddai that that never happens.

Because until the world becomes one big nation, with no countries, there will be barriers that hold us apart and there will be differences and dislikes.

Why can't we define ourselves by these instead of literally where we were born, regardless of the overlap?

We used to. But don't anymore.

Well, certainly it is not the perfect way to begin a country, but there is no country on Earth that was not founded that way. :shrug:



Which time? That happened to the Mayans more than once! :laugh:

Therefore all countries are built on terrible backbones and svck equally hence nationalism is nonsensical.

Wait, what? I'm proud to be an American. Why? Because no matter how much [censored] we produce, I'm free, free, free to worship my God, free to vote, free to own a gun in my house etc. I love America. Nationalism is not non-sensical at all.

im not proud of my country
im also not proud of the 90% of humans that are idiots

I don't have a great deal of national pride. Pride (and disappointment) in an individual or institution waxes and wanes depending on what they are doing at the moment. I do love my country, but I'm more on the disappointed end of the scale right now.

Differences and diversity are not necessarily bad things. In nature, an ecosystem is healthy if it's diverse. I think this applies to human societies as well.

Let's dislike each other in a civilized and peaceful way instead. I'm not temptet to live in some big global monoculture afraid of differences.

I like my fellow countrymen because we agree to provide freedom of speech for each other. That's my national pride.