Which reminds me of my favourite saying.

"We don't inherit the world from our ancestors, but borrow if from our children"

Yeah becuase democracy is working out soooo well. Lots of people are idiots, if the idiots outnumber you enjoy being [censored] over. I knew Cameron would be a dike, but no he is in power.
How about when America voted for Bush ?

Yes they are the best, if you teach them all their lives how to rule, then your going to be better than the [censored] we have today.

Maybe my mother is a crap cook, but roast dinners taste terrible.

I think you'll find democracy keeps those in power on their toes and therefore much more is achieved and the people are much better served than in any other system.

Sure, a perfectly informed truly benevolent dictatorship/oligarchy would theoretically be the best possible system, but it's never going to happen.

Democracy means that parties that don't get the job done and don't serve the people get kicked out pretty damn swiftly, and that's what government is meant to do. Sure it has it's flaws, but it's the best we can get without violating human rights.


Hmmm. Maybe the problem lies more with blurred meanings in the English language and not with the majority of people's sentiments? I need to think on this I suppose.

Still, when something that you've played a massive part in - birthed - goes on to do great things, sure, pride is justified. If you've only had a minimal impact it is not justified to feel proud of the collective effort but it is justified to feel proud of oneself, of one's convictions and efforts.

What barbaric mutilation and what does technology have to do with it? Mechanical tools are not purely reflective of a society's level of civility or advancement. It's that kind of thinking that first brought up the insulting term of "savage" and gave European explorers what they needed to justify their conquering and destruction of plenty of indigenous cultures. There were also periods of time where Northern Africa and the Middle East experienced far more technological/medicinal/scientific progress than what we now know as the Western world. I hear the Dark Ages were a fun time for Europe. If we are referring to the modern world, technological prowess is difficult to achieve when, admittedly, more developed countries leech off resources and mess with land divides, too much.

I don't see the purpose in separating your family from the general population and giving them certain kindnesses you wouldn't a typical person. I, of course, know that working as a group is important, but segregation of people within that group is counterproductive in this context.

There was a vote recently which offered the opportunity to change the way we elect people. Unfortunately it failed, I think down to the fact that many people just didn't use their vote.
One of the things that makes me proud to be British is that I do have a choice in who runs my country, even if it's small and sometimes overlooked. I'd hate for it to be any other way.
I suppose I do like our traditions (some of them), but I'm more proud of the changes that have been made to try to make it a better place to live, and the fact that there is always an opportunity for change here (even if we don't necessarily take it - at least it's there).

And yep, it's just your mother - roast dinners are great, and can only be beaten by a full English breakfast.

Yeah they were ahead. Now they arent. Why the hell should I care if a place was advanced hundreds of years ago. I knew a guy who was smart when he was about 13 (whatever grade that is in the US) all the top classes, as he got older, he gradually dropped. Just becuase he was good then dosent mean [censored] now when he is average.

It has nothing to do with intelligence. Technology is not the defining aspect and goal of culture.

You don't think part of the reason they fell behind might be the hundreds of years of war that Europe waged on them? :whistling:

Glad it failed. I disliked the new system.

Most didnt vote becuase the didnt understand apparently.

Maybe, but there is no way I can see that food as anything other than bland.

I have deleted a couple of posts - one for an inappropriate comment and the other for quoting it.

I also note there is some political comment creeping in. Can we manage to stay away from politics please.

Thanks guys.

When did the first crusade begin, sometime around 1100? Fast forward 900 years and the Western world still hasn't left the middle-east in peace.

I am very patriotic. Sure, I am not crazy about our current government. But, every time I read the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence, I can't help but feeling a rush of nationalism.

But you didn't write it...

I like the look of them. The cursive is a bit different from my own and reading it isn't as smooth as it could be, but they're cool to look at.

ignore or delete

I can't read cursive well, especially not from 250 years ago. I like the way they look, though. But I was actually talking about what is written, not how it looks.

BTW, I would die and kill for my country. Not my government, but my country.

And the men who wrote them didn't come up with the ideas in them, and the men who came up with the ideas based them on other mens' work, and those men....... it is all a process. They wrote it, we live it. Both are important parts to play.

I have some pride for my country, mainly because of our accents (is it weird to like your own accent?). Excluding the ned/[censored] way of speaking.... that's just disgusting. Besides that I don't really care that there was some guy a hundred years ago screaming freedom at our southern neighbours or that Scotland has the highest percentage of gingers/where the ginger hair colour started (I don't really know which).


Edit: Chavs is censored? Huh. (talking about http://tinyurl.com/3j9gags since you can't see the censored word.)

I can read and write cursive (In fact, I prefer it.)... but they did something strangely different back then. Anyway, I honestly don't get anything from reading either of them and wouldn't kill or die for my country. That begs the question "Can I legally just go to Canada if drafted?". I really don't have any attachments to my country... or any country. My own family is scattered across several and I have no family in this country nor would I really care about this country if I did. I don't understand the dying and killing part. I'd just rather live than die for something I couldn't care less about, but that's me... and I'm not proud of this country, at all, but rather the opposite, to be honest. It's about the country's origins... a hypocritical backbone based on the destruction and relocation of an indigenous people and enslavement of another group of people.

Without getting to political, because Rohugh might slap me.

Depends why we were at war. If we declared war on Germany because we wanted to increase our empire again, then NO I wouldn't fight for my country.

If it were because the Germans declared war on us then yes I would. I wouldn't fight a war that I didn't believe in just because some fat bloke in a suit said so.

I would use a modern real world example but would involve politics and like I said Rohugh might slap me


Thankyou, you have articulated what I was trying to say not to successfully in an earlier post.

I don't suppose anyone on here has spent a large amount of time in more than one country? I was wondering if maybe being raised in more than one country means that you identify with one more than the other, or how national pride works in that situation? I ask because I wasn't born in the UK, but seeing as I was raised here, this is where my loyalty/national pride lies.

So be proud of your values and your beliefs, but not the men who wrote them down.

But those values are lived to different degrees by all of the people under the huge umbrella that is 'Americans'. Indeed, people of other nationalities are likely to embrace the values of the American constitution just as strongly, sometimes more strongly, sometimes less so than people born into that system. There is nothing really American about the values enshrined in the constitution. 'American' is just an arbitrary label. Those ideals are pretty much the same across the West, but there exist these bizarre, massive divisions of people based on what side of the border they're born.

I think I think of people as global citizens, all equal, their values simply defining them. Ugh. It's hard to describe. Do you see where I'm coming from? At all? Would be very encouraging if you did.

Yeah, its an embarrassment that Andrew Jackson is on our money. The man was a bigot and a mass-murderer. Other than that, the picture is not so bad. Most of the destruction of the Indians was accidental, through the introduction of new diseases. And although we did not start the practice of slavery, we eventually put a stop to it here. The ideas were right, it just took them a while to figure out they needed to apply them to everyone. :shrug:

Why should someone be proud of his family? It wasn't their choice to be born into that family, after all. The fact is, having pride in a group of people holds people together. Why should anyone have pride in anything? I think everyone should be proud of their country, for the good things in it. Even those born in the less luxurious parts of the world.