I'll never capture that "Morrowind" moment again... : V - Skyrim

» Mon May 28, 2012 12:36 am

Nostalgia aside, Morrowind is simply a much better game than Skyrim.

Huh. Says who? I played Morrowind more recently than most and I failed to get the appeal...I'd reckon it wasn't the fantastic, flawless, perfect jewel in my eyes because I wasn't wearing rose-tinted nostalgia glasses. In my opinion Skyrim is a FAR better game. Maybe don't state your opinions as facts...just a tip.

» Mon May 28, 2012 3:58 am

We got it. Morrowind was great. It's normal you'll never get that feeling. It was a first.

+1

» Mon May 28, 2012 5:45 am

Very nicely said

Cheers

» Sun May 27, 2012 9:40 pm

It wasn't the graphics that made morrowind my favorite. It was the complexitity. Oblivion and Skyrim are simplistic when compared to Morrowind. Take enchanting for example; in Morrowind it was very difficult, complicated, and customizable, but in Oblivion and Skyrim it was reduced to copy/paste, or rather cut/paste, material which becomes very boring. I miss putting "constant-effect" enchantments on weapons, and "cast when used" on rings.

There was never really anything very difficult or complicated about Morrowind's Enchant.

» Sun May 27, 2012 9:54 pm

Easily the best Zelda game, and why I can't get into any new ones. I still play this from time to time :foodndrink:

Hmm... I believe I got Link to the Past and FF2 (IV) on the same Christmas. I completed and enjoyed the SNES Zelda but guess because I enjoyed FF2 so much more I look back more favorably to Ocarina of Time.

» Mon May 28, 2012 4:49 am

These Morrowind threads should be considered trolling. Way too many of them. And half the time it's someone spewing their opinion of which only a few care about.

» Mon May 28, 2012 4:15 am

After playing many hours of Skyrim, I'll admit it is a quality game. Plenty of features to make it fun and interesting. We may be able to complain about certain gameplay mechanics or design decisions, but in reality the game is quite playable and likely represents an appropriate amount of development effort for a flagship title.

I think the biggest issue for many players in my age range (28) is that we remember the feeling and emotion Morrowind evoked, which came at this magical time in our gaming history. I distinctly remember how profoundly immersed I was the first time I discovered I could "play" a game by wandering through some swamps and picking mushroom academical ingredients at my leisure. When I hear the Morrowind main theme I get a kind of pseudo-narcotic high. I remember rushing home and starting up the game, hearing the music, and anticipating the amazing experience I felt awaited me. The same phenomenon applies to FF7.

Through no fault of Bethesda, I have aged some. I have gained quite a bit of experience in playing video games. I'm much more keenly aware of what makes a game good and what doesn't. I can spot a line that isn't anti-aliased properly a mile away. I actively participate in forums which give users a false sense in having some input in game development. I have become my own worst enemy when it comes to allowing myself to enjoy games. I have developed absolutely zero tolerance for any perceived imperfection. The DRM wars that software companies have waged on PC users has strongly reinforced my "us" vs "them" mentality.

So I don't necessarily blame Skyrim for not being Morrowind. If you sat a kid who was new to the series down infront of both I'm quite sure he would choose Skyrim as the better game. Unfortunately I believe many of us desire that nostalgic "Morrowind" experience but we have all grown older and life has taken it's toll. It's sad.

As much as agree agree because it seems like Morrowind at the time was the new game. There wasnt a game you could really compare to it. When Oblivion came out, it was basically streamlined Morrowind and now Skyrim just feels like a graphically upgraded version. I guess its that joy of experiencing the things the first time around and while this is well put.

This idea is probably why so many Morrowind fans cant make good arguments about Skyrims flaws.

» Mon May 28, 2012 2:51 am

go back and play morrowind
will cure that feeling in heart beat

everything is always better in retrospect
it's called nostalgia

» Mon May 28, 2012 1:49 pm

go back and play morrowind
will cure that feeling in heart beat

everything is always better in retrospect
it's called nostalgia

I am, you should see it 'fully' modded :celebration:

» Mon May 28, 2012 12:23 pm

Huh. Says who? I played Morrowind more recently than most and I failed to get the appeal...I'd reckon it wasn't the fantastic, flawless, perfect jewel in my eyes because I wasn't wearing rose-tinted nostalgia glasses. In my opinion Skyrim is a FAR better game. Maybe don't state your opinions as facts...just a tip.

Not that i can possibly encompass exactly what it is about the feel of a game in any reasonable form (or any reasonable timeframe), but i do give praise to Skyrim for tickling a Morrowind nostalgia nerve which Oblivion had previously killed. However, relatively speaking, if that's all Beth has accomplished in ten freaking years, and at those costs, what are we celebrating exactly?

» Mon May 28, 2012 4:41 am

I feel like I'm talking to Frodo at the cracks of Doom: Just let it go!

Seriously, you can never get those moments back. Just try and find new moments.

» Mon May 28, 2012 3:48 am

Not all of it's nostalgia, Morrowind is still a legitimately good game and some have in fact played Morrowind quite recently, heck I've even played Daggerfall only a few months ago. People really do see this far too black and white whenever older games come up though. Far too many refuse to listen to anything regarding them and just call nostalgia or inversely are far too zealous when it comes to the older games.

I agree with this part of your post, on all counts.

Nostalgia isn't the only thing that made Morrowind a great game. Morrowind in it's own right is a great game. To this day. Since I played it back in 2002, or 2003, whenever it came out, it's been my favorite game of all time. Until now with Skyrim... But the Morrowind fanatics are way too zealous about Morrowind being the best game ever, which leads the Skyrim fanatics to playing the "nostalgia" card.

I had made a post in another thread, but it got locked before I could post it. But I feel it is accurate to this:

"Because the people who are attempting to contact Bethesda are doing so in a way that comes across as their opinion is the only one that matters.

None of the complainers are saying they are unhappy with particular aspects of the game in a constructive manner. They are doing so in an "OMG HOW COULD BETHESDA DO THIS??? BETH IS SO LAZY OMG" type of way.

Secondly, by these complainers complaining and wanting to change things, they are wanting to turn the game and series into something that -I- don't want it to be. I am happy with the direction of Skyrim. This is what I want Elder Scrolls to me. This is quite possibly the best video gaming experience I have ever had, and I want to see that continue.

Thirdly, an overwhelmingly large majority of those complainers respond to those of us that do agree with Bethesda's direction with insulting remarks, such as calling the game "dumbed down", thus implying those of us that do enjoy the direction are "dumber" and need things "easier" for our simple minds to figure out. Constantly the complainers aggressively insult console gamers by insinuating that they have lower standards, and can't handle the same types of complex games that PC gamers can, and accuse console gamers of ruining TES, RPG's, and games in general.

These complainers act irrationally towards the mundane, and act like a UI that isn't to their liking is the ultimate insult towards them from the developer.

If the complaints were "Hey, this UI isn't really working for me, I hope this is something they take a look at in the next installment" or "I hope a future DLC / expansion / patch can address these issues I have with the UI" I would be inclined to respectfully disagree. Those aren't how they are stated. They are stated as "This UI is HORRIBLE, TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE, Bethesda is so horrible for catering to the "console gamers" and dumbing it down, OMG this is the WORST THING EVER"

Same with perks. If the complaints were "I'm not a fan of the perks, I wish they did perks better" or "I preferred the old system of straight up leveling skills without perks" then I would respectfully disagree with a statement like "I prefer the perks system myself, I believe that it gives more customization and makes for more unique builds than the old system", but no, instead it's accusations of "Bethesda is DUMBING DOWN THIS GAME and STRIPPING IT OF ALL IT'S RPG ELEMENTS".

The complaints aren't constructive. They are accusatory. They are aggressive. And they are insulting towards the people that do agree with the changes."

The Morrowind crowd comes along with a huge sense of superiority and elitism, and it really turns me off, and aggravates me, including -against- Morrowind, which is one of my favorite games ever. In response, the Skyrim crowd comes along and desperately defends Skyrim by any means necessary, and it just becomes an ugly, cluttered mess.

» Mon May 28, 2012 12:32 pm

true...its rather our problem than the games problem...but that doesnt make it better for us... sometimes it can be fixed if a game comes up with something new or in a way which you havent experienced before...(i have this feeling sometimes with some indi titles...)

well youll never forget your first...and ff7 also holds a very special place in my heart

» Mon May 28, 2012 6:51 am

@OP: My situation is pretty much exactly yours, down to the letter. I agree with you to an extent, but I do feel that games can still produce "magical" moments for myself even as a 27-year old gamer. As it sounds like you are a pretty experienced gamer, I'm assuming you've played Demon's Souls/Dark Souls. The first one of those, and the second to an extent gave me moments like Morrowind produced, and there have been other games I've played in the last 5 years or so that did as well.

I think it all really comes down to immersion. Good books, movies, and games can be immersive no matter what your age. It might be harder as an older gamer to become immersed in these worlds than it was when I was young, but a good game can still do that to me, and I had high hopes for skyrim. Skyrim was really good game, technically; and it was far more immersive than oblivion, which had the opposite effect on me, but it fell far short of Morrowind's effect. I think where I'd have to disagree with you is that I think it was a lot of small game design decisions, most of which were aimed at "dumbing down" the game for a wider, American (read: Call of Duty generation) audience that made this game fall short of the mark once again. The North American companies, in particular, seem obsessed with appealing to every possible consumer, and compromise game design to make those appeals. Morrowind was special because it really felt like this living world, filled with hand-placed unique NPCs, objects, monsters, and items. Skyrim feels like an exceptional game, with fun encounters started by NPCs (whose only purpose to you is to give quests) against adequately leveled monsters for adequately leveled gear; I will say that the outdoors environment for Skyrim is immersive to an extent just on its own...its beautiful! Too bad the rest of the experience falls short.

» Mon May 28, 2012 9:12 am

When I hear someone wax on about how great Oblivion was I already know how old they were, because to someone with a bit of experience, Oblivion was awful. If it wasn't your first love, you felt like you just woke up after a night of beer goggles.

That's not fair nor true.

I have plenty of RPG experience, and Oblivion was my 2nd favorite game of all time (3rd now that Skyrim is out).

Oblivion is downright amazing as far as I'm concerned.

» Mon May 28, 2012 9:46 am

The Morrowind crowd comes along with a huge sense of superiority and elitism, and it really turns me off, and aggravates me, including -against- Morrowind, which is one of my favorite games ever. In response, the Skyrim crowd comes along and desperately defends Skyrim by any means necessary, and it just becomes an ugly, cluttered mess.

Food for thought, mate: Someone's winning in all this, and it ain't Charlie...

» Mon May 28, 2012 1:01 pm

Food for thought, mate: Someone's winning in all this, and it ain't Charlie...

I know I'm winning in all of this, because I absolutely adore Skyrim, and have firmly gotten on the "Skyrim is the best game ever" bandwagon.

I just hate coming to these forums, to discuss the game, but the game can't be discussed because everyone is too busy [censored]ing and arguing with each other.

I made a thread to try to talk about people's adventures in the game, and it immediately fell out of sight, with only a couple replies. Because everyone has to make a thread [censored]ing about the mundane issues Skyrim has, exaggerating them as the greatest injustices the world has ever seen, or talking about how Morrowind was better.

I DON'T CARE!!! I played Morrowind. I put in my time with that game, and it was the greatest thing I had ever experienced in a video game. But it's time to move on. Skyrim is the new game, and I want to talk about that. Not Morrowind. Not Oblivion - both games which I absolutely love. I want to talk about Skyrim.

But I can't do that, because everyone is busy [censored]ing about something, and the "Skyrim Defense Force", as they've been dubbed, is coming to the rescue.

So who's winning? Well, Bethesda for the attention and the money. Me, for getting 4 "Best game of all time" candidates out of Bethesda (Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, and Fallout 3 are my top 4 favorite games of all time, tho not in that order), and not much of anybody else.

» Mon May 28, 2012 8:16 am

That's not fair nor true.

I have plenty of RPG experience, and Oblivion was my 2nd favorite game of all time (3rd now that Skyrim is out).

Oblivion is downright amazing as far as I'm concerned.

Well just like in love, some people have different atheistic standards.

» Mon May 28, 2012 10:53 am

Alas...Nostalgia just isn't what it used to be.

I have probably logged more hours in Morrowind that all of you...and I only play Bethesda games.
But I do not make it the standard by which all other games are judged. I enjoy each game accordingly to its own merits.

» Mon May 28, 2012 7:00 am

Thanks for all the responses. I'll point out that although this thread inevitabdly did enter into the realm of "Morrowind vs. Skyrim" I never mentioned that I was claiming one was better than the other. If anything, I'm admiting it is impossible for me to subjectivley compare the two. I'm not wholesale excusing certain failings in Skyrim in the name of nastolgia nor claiming Morrowind to be more than it subjectivley was.

I'm simply acknowledging a major personal factor in my perception of the two games. A factor, which I believe many of these responces confirm, is present for many players and should be acknowledged as such.

» Mon May 28, 2012 4:11 am

When I hear the Morrowind main theme I get a kind of pseudo-narcotic high. I remember rushing home and starting up the game, hearing the music, and anticipating the amazing experience I felt awaited me. The same phenomenon applies to FF7.

Through no fault of Bethesda, I have aged some. I have gained quite a bit of experience in playing video games. I'm much more keenly aware of what makes a game good and what doesn't. I can spot a line that isn't anti-aliased properly a mile away. I actively participate in forums which give users a false sense in having some input in game development. I have become my own worst enemy when it comes to allowing myself to enjoy games. I have developed absolutely zero tolerance for any perceived imperfection. The DRM wars that software companies have waged on PC users has strongly reinforced my "us" vs "them" mentality.

We remember the feeling and emotion that morrowind evoked because we were young dumb and impressionable. We are now jaded by the constant onslaught of [censored] games with chest high walls brown sameysameyness and long for the thrill of mario 3 again... or better yet your teenage years or morrowind... We will never have that moment, not because the games have changed, but because WE have changed.

In the same way FF7 held emotion, if you went back and played FF7 now, and watched as Aeries died and still shed a tear, then i would kick you in the junk and call you names. because your an idiot. its not that sad now.
While videogames are fun, you are coming into the time when you realise, [censored] my life is already over. and nothing will feel the same, just settle into your samey samey home situation, the fact that you married someone that after only a couple years you cant stand, you drive a [censored] car, and your paycheck is considerably smaller than you would like. Also you are not a rockstar cop or fire fighter, let alone an astronaut.
You have more experiance more emotions, a higher sense of things and your place in it.

Also if a line is un AA'ed its cause you have a crappy video card not the games fault. its part of that small paycheck thing****

» Mon May 28, 2012 4:24 am

i thik that article here captures some issues with skyrim not too bad (i dont agree on everything but that last bit is pretty spot on) http://kotaku.com/5863376/what-skyrim-could-learn-from-skyward-sword

maybe the next tes game shouldnt be even bigger with even more quests and locations etc. etc.... rather less but more memorable ones...

Skyward Sword is better in almost every way. And for me, the deciding factor wasn't the art, or the combat, or the story, or the open world. It was the epicness.

Skyrim tries very hard to do epic. Adding Dragons, Giants and Mammoths was a great idea, but the problem is there are far too many. You kill Dragon after Dragon, giant after giant, and after a while it became stale. I began to relish the fights with dragon priests and ghostly brothers who consorted to destroy the realm before being trapped in an amulet. These were encounters going for that lofty "Lord of the Rings" type feel, but they were few and far between.

Skyward Sword is different. Almost every new monster is interesting and fun to fight, and the boss battles are some of the coolest I've ever seen in a Video game. I know I'm a little over halfway through, and yet I've fought a 6 armed Buddha statue and used its own giant scimitars against it, I've fought a demon lord who could catch my Goddess Sword in between his fingers and rip it out of my hands, I've fought a 60ft leviathan on a sinking ship that was brought back in time by a magic stone in the crow's nest, I've fought a giant living magma monster on the side of a 100yard incline. Each of these fights was incredible, and there are many more that I haven't talked about but are just as cool.

And when it comes down to it, this is what Skyrim needs to learn from Skyward Sword. Forget crafting a system that gives you endless quests. Forget trying to craft hundreds of dungeons that end up feeling the same no matter how different they actually are. Focus on the memorable moments. Those times that I pump my fist in triumph, heart beating wildly as I land the final blow on a Dragon Priest, having used all my potions in the attempt. Throw just a couple dragons at me, like the ones in Dragon Age, where the moment I see one my palms start sweating and I prepare myself for the inevitable clash of titans.

Dragons are awesome, but after the 20th kill, they're just a short speed bump on my way to the end.

» Mon May 28, 2012 3:38 am

Nostalgia is neat.
I have the same remembrance from Daggerfall.

» Mon May 28, 2012 3:57 am

Nostalgia aside, Morrowind is simply a much better game than Skyrim.

I simply "IMO" would have changed your post from "unnecessary to the thread" to "just your opinion"

And then people asks why Morrowind Lovers are considered elitists. I love Morrowind and don't go into threads just to say "Morrowind, as a fact, is better than Skyrim! LoL!"; firstly because that is just my opinion (not a fact) and second because that doesn't add nothing to the discussion it just makes me seems arrogant.

» Mon May 28, 2012 11:51 am

Yup, Daggerfall for me too... also Planescape: Torment, and Final Fantasy IV, though it was technically my second Final Fantasy having played the first.

Just hearing the music from any of those titles affects me deeply.