Exactly, by technical definition no sharecropper is a slave since there getting a cut of the crops.

So they completed a job and that makes them evil?
I think it means that "you" don't like them for the fact that they shot "you" in the head.
That does not mean that they are "evil".


Don't see how they are evil though.
They create the drugs in the Mojave, sure.
And they raided some NCR caravans before Bitter Springs.
But remember that NCR wanted them dead in FO1 and FO2 as well.
If anything it's NCR that are the bastards.
Khans just returned the favor.
If NCR is going to be dikes against them then they have the right to be dikes right back at them.
And then NCR burned down their village filled children and elderly.

So no, I don't see how they are "evil" or "bad".
A little less moral perhaps, but they're not more of bad people than NCR or House is.
Go there for yourself when you reach it and keep an open mind about them.

I've edited my list of faction Karma.

I know what it is and the game is set in America and I don't think it's just a coincidence or a nice name. Just from talking to them it seems like that is what ncr is doing, maybe it's not, but there are bad connotations with those words besides just the basic denotation.

Slaves were never termed "sharecroppers", a lot of former slaves became sharecroppers, but they didnt get any of the crops prior to 65.

If you had to label the "Most Evil" and "Most Good" (I know that makes no grammatical sense)...It would be The Legion and The Followers respectively.

Trouble with this argument is the NCR did just as well (and much better as far as I'm concerned considering their success in stamping out slavery) in civilizing California without resorting to the incredible brutality practiced by the Legion.

Real Khans= Evil

Khans of California= Not evil,but no so good, maybe more neutral than ever, they only want to "return the favor" to the NCR after the events of BitterSpring,

The Master Army become less evil after the death of Richard Grey in FO1, Marcus is the pure example of this

I'll agree that the name can give a bad impression to anyone who knows any history on the subject but I really do think that the developers chose the name because it was the best term they could come up with. Besides, from what I understand the farmers working the NCR fields outside Vegas are well within their rights to quit but they would likely face penalties for being in violation of their contract.

Yes but what happened to sharecroppers is they were charged for land and food and clothes and equipment and anything else the owner could think of, then they'd owe the owner money and every year they would raise prices so that the sharecropper could never pay off what they owed insuring that the owner had free labor. It happened to whites too.

@falcon- which would probably mean they'd have to work it off because ncr money is worth crap. I concede but I still believe that's what the writers meant, there are many words they could have used instead.

There was no NCR in Fallout 1. The Khans raided the peaceful farming village of Shady Sands and kidnapped Tandi.

In Fallout 2 they were an oppressive band of raiders who took over Vault 15 and ruled with brutality.

NCR didn't civilize california yknow.
Look at the places.
Vault City, Reno (In it's own twisted way), The Den, Klamath, Hub, Junkyard, Adytum, San Fransisco etc.
They were already civilized prior to NCR taking them over.

Mango, I never said they weren't evil in the previous games, just that the NCR has been on them from the first game.
In this game on the other hand, they are no longer "as evil" as they were in previous games.
So in this game it was in fact NCR that was "evil".

Yeah, that's not a slave. Its exploitation but not slavery, not to mention this all happened after the emancipation. Also there were a lot of poor whites that did the same thing.

I have no arguments with you, I despise Caesars Legion soley for its unecassary brutality. I dont believe unprovoked brutality is the proper course of action for anything.

My List

Brotherhood of Steel - Lawful Neutral
Caesar's Legion - Lawful Evil
Followers of the Apocalypse - Chaotic Good
Enclave - Lawful Evil
Great Khans - Chaotic Neutral
Ghouls - Varied
Mutants - Varied
Remnants of the Master's Army - Chaotic Good
Powder Gangers - Chaotic Evil
New California Republic - Chaotic Good
New California Rangers (2242): Chaotic Good
New California Rangers (2281): Lawful Good


Brotherhood of Steel: They care about technology, and that I can respect. They're not bad people, because they tell you, "We'll kill you if you say a word to the people that declared war on us, because we decided to take back something so they wouldn't use a weapon that they're ignorant of."

Caesar's Legion: Caesar is evil, because he believes slavery is the right path to survival. He views the world as tools for him to manipulate so that he can 'protect' the people.

Followers of the Apocalypse: While they have done some unlawful things in the past, they're currently a very lawful good organization dedicated to helping people. They were never 'bad', they just used different methods to get what was neccesary.

Enclave: The Enclave are Lawful Evil, because they adhere to a strict code of ideals, that they believe is the right way. The average soldier isn't evil, he's brain-washed, it's the leadership that is evil.

Great Khans: The Great Khans aren't evil, simply chaotic neutral. In 2161, they kidnapped Tandi? Why? So they could get supplies from Shady Sands (while I found this nowhere in the game, it seems like the most logical conclusion). In 2242, they fed the Squat and gave them water from raids. In 2281, they were remnants of a beaten down culture that was trying to stay as close to its roots as possible.

Ghouls: Like any race, they're varied.

Super Mutants: See Ghouls.

Remnants of the Master's Army: They honestly believe they're doing the right thing. They worshipped the Master as a god, and they believed that being dipped in the FEV would make a human more fit to survive in the Wasteland. They were simply trying to aid the wastelanders, but since the Master was gone, they had no FEV anymore, so they decided it would be best to destroy the humans, because the humans were the blame that their god was dead.

Powder Gangers: They're obviously chaotic evil. At Vault 19, they torture NCR citizens for fun. At the NCRCF, they killed many NCR troopers, simply because they wanted to bust out.

New California Republic: These guys are a bit on the shady side at times. They have done less than honorable things, including putting bounties on the New California Rangers. They'll do whatever they must to expand, even if it harms the lesser man.

New California Rangers (2242): They were an extremist para-military group dedicated to abolition. They slaughtered slavers wherever they were found and rightfully so. They hated slavers with a passion. They would even kill slavers in NCR territory.

New California Rangers (2281): The special forces branch of the New California Republic. They were the elite of the elite. Unlike their past traditions, they weren't anti-slavers, rather they were just highly-trained soldiers.

I never said it hsppened during slaving time and it's holding someone against their will which in my terms means slavery.

I understand why you would feel this way, but Slavery is unwilling, a Sharecropper does willingly takes the raw end of the deal because they have nowhere else to turn.

And Vault City like the second most "civilized" place in California

It is unwilling because they didn't know that would happen. Who in their right mind would willfully take that route knowing they'd never get out?

There were plenty of tribes in California and not everything Caesar conquered was tribal unless Tucson was one weird tribe. Civilized is probably a bad word for what I'm talking about though. Pacified would be better. The Legion's big argument is that their methods, while brutal, have brought safety and peace. Well great but so has the NCR and the only thing preventing them from doing the same thing to the Mojave is the threat of the Legion.

Yeah, if they had any gumption they'd be out robbing for a living. Working is for people that are too lazy to steal.

The Truck system...gotta love it.

The problem is they are always trying to get revenge on the NCR because of actions they deserved.
They claim to raid NCR caravans to get revenge on the NCR for kicking them out of California, but they were only kicked out in the first place because they were raiders. If they've changed and are no longer evil, they should stop raiding.
They are like a child who doesn't understand the concept of consequences and punishment, and no matter what they do they believe any attack on them is unjustified.

If they just accepted the fact that they were bad in the past and stopped trying to "get even" they would get along fine with the NCR.

Bitter springs was terrible, but 1) it was a mistake, and 2) the Khans themselves have committed atrocities like that on purpose

The Khans aren't evil, they're a pack of raiders that need to raid to survive.

I dont see the khans as raiders like they were in Fallout and Fallout 2, I'd say they are more or less a band of desperate survivors. Even at RR drug lab, they say they make chems (and meds through your intervention) soley so they can trade for what they need to survive.

Here's a little story, about Jack and Diane...
Two Jet head Khans that probably cant feel their hands...

I think the khans are misguided just like pretty much every group in the game come to think of it. I don't think any of them are right. I don't think humans by nature can ever sustain a good society. Well there actually was one full of all different people that worked great til another society destroyed it thus supporting my theory.