How about we discuss a hypothetical western take-over of the Legion. I predict a split shadowing the diversion of the Eastern and Western Roman empire in 330. A group loyal to Caesar and his "ways". Another that sees all this great NCR and west coast pre and post-war tech lying around and doesn't want to give it up. An Imperial government is rife with corruption already, it doesn't take much to "whack" off the leader if another groups prerogatives clash with Caesar, or Caesar's successor's plans. Although you wouldn't even need that, perhaps an exile of predominant figures in Caesar's hierarchy that were officially "on the outs". I don't think the whole Roman zeitgeist would last a couple centuries past a take-over either. People would eventually ask why they're practicing these bizarre cultures and rituals and finally split. Whatever it is, I couldn't see a long peace if the Legion reached the Coast.




Pretty much, they went into the vault with nothing but Republican 50's red scare propaganda. You give Gandhi that amount of arsenal and hes going to shoot something. Are they Republicans? Of course they are, the only people that weren't were Hollywood, some journalism and media and high immigrant states. Although I think if a lot of the Democrats from those days were to run today, they'd be considered Republicans.

Whenever I don't feel like helping out the NCR on something, I make my own fun, because supporting the legion is totally antithetical to the chaotic neutral ethos. They're bad guys, seriously twisted and oppressive. The NCR at least will just put you in prison if you become a thorn in their side.

Hit the nail on the head there. The Democrats had to be more conservative during the Red scare days because liberal/socialist agendas would cause the average American to brand the party as communist. Politics wasn't so much left versus right... It was a competition over who was more American and who hated those damned commies more.

You are simplifying things. They don't kill people if they steal and besides in their eyes, their slaves are their property and they need to make sure that no other slaves steal. I don't agree with what they're doing, but I bet the ncr has harsh punishments they give to people and soldiers that go against them. I find it hard to believe that considering the fallout universe is based off the McCarthy era, that the ncr doesn't believe in torture for the good of their country.

Edit: sorry if some things don't make sense, it's 1am here.

It's hard to let the past be for some.
NCR on the other hand could have been the bigger man and at least tried to go a diplomatic route before burning down their village.


Again, I never said they weren't evil in the past two games.


1. They can't help it that the only way they know how to make do is with drugs that mostly the Fiends buy.
2. What if they can't buy stuff from them? It's pretty clear that they don't exactly have the greatest income in RRC.
3. And again, never said they weren't evil in the past two games. But if they are "evil" in New Vegas then they are hardly "as evil" as they used to be.

I can't say a civilised and good society is one that treats women the way the legion does and crucifies people.

As for sharcropping, would you rather the NCR came along with their 'new' sharecropping ideas or would you rather you saw the legion wandering up to your front door licking their lips at your wife and daughters?

Legion is bad people, well horific might be a better word to describe them. So bad infact they even make the Enclave look good!

In this game the only oponent to Legion that has a hope of stopping them is NCR (done it once by themselves already). Despite this, it doesn't automatically make the NCR good, but, they are magnitudes better than the Legion!

Good vs Bad is something that works only for fairy tales or the Bush administration.

FO:NV actually makes a rather good job at depicting believable and plausible societies.
Therefore you get a lot of different shades of gray.
And you get to see how good intentions can go terribly wrong. (e.g. Caesar)
And that power leads to corruption. (e.g. NCR)

Honestly, this is why I prefer Mr.Houses leadership over the NCR or CL, Caesars Legion I oppose purely because I'm soft hearted and cant find much to justify crucifiction. NCR however, They play civil yes, but at the same time, they only Colonel Hsu and maybe 5 other people truly appreciate your work if you play for the NCR, one could argue Mr. House is not grateful, but Mr. House does not run on praise and sunshine, so that's expected, but theres even an ending slide saying Mr. House had a quiet sense of pride in his pick of employee.

Look... come with me, step out of the box to your left and up the stairs. Take a birds eye view look on this.
If NCR come into power, Vegas/America will crumble.
If Legion come into power, Vegas/America will survive.
Would you rather be dead or alive? Now shut the hell up. You're only sticking up for NCR because you sided with them.

Umm....thats the most black and white view I've ever seen.

I can't see barbaric spearchuckers dressed as Charging Chucks being the saviors of mankind.

You obviously don't know the first thing about the Legion then. They have a dream that is rome, the roman empire on whole lasted 1700 years.

A. Most of the Legion follows Caesar, not his ideals.

B. You forgot the part where the world plunged into an essentially 'dark age' for 1000 years.

You just gave the worst example. Ever. Of all time.

I agree Legion will have a better chance of Civilization to prosper, But you? Your example was HORRIBLE.

NCR, Is corrupt, Is flawed, But they are doing the right thing for the wrong reason. They just want to expand, And conquer.

Caesars Legion wants to bring back civilization, But they do the WRONG thing for the right reason.

Instead of trying to unite others peacefully, They conquer them, And any who resist is basically killed (By Crucifix, Execution, Becoming Slaves, etc.). But, They are trying to rebuild civilization.


And if they conquer others, I'de say there would be less crimes then there are with NCR, Because most crimes (That I've seen in the game.) have been punished by death.
Plus, Almost every legion troop is loyal to Caesar's Legion.
(Example; The Centurion in McCarran.)

Hahaha, maybe I did

However, you know deep inside that if the NCR came to power things would be bad:
They're easily corrupt,
They're Weak,
They're Selfish,
They're ungrateful,
They're scared of anything powerful/intelligent.

At least the Legion would secure safety. if you dont follow their ways your going to die, yes. However, its simple - follow them and shut the hell up.

I guess your attempt to wound my NCR pride has no affect, seeing as I am loyal to Mr. House.

We need Gabriel in here, he's a more fun philisopic sparring foe, you're oversimplyifing things, you leave out the grey.

Also, I believe that Mr. House is just a money grubbing tyrant, Almost everything i've seen him do, Was for buisness. (Which leads to money.)
He filled Vault 21 but then made it a hotel (Which brings money.) and brought three tribes to power and gave them casinos. (Which led to money afterwards.)

But, At least he does have SOME good intentions.. But he leaves all the towns outside of Vegas to rot honestly.

HaHa, sorry it wasn't aimed at you - just the NCR puppets.
Na, Gabriel is biased.
We need somebody who doesn't support any faction, person or even themselves. hmm...................

Bring in...
THE FALLOUT 3 FAN!

Money is not evil. Contrary to popular myth, money is not the root of all evil, human greed is. That said, I dont like how Mr. House neglects Freeside, but to be honest, NCR and the just about any person is guilty of 'favoring what benefits me and ignore what I have no interest in'

@Never- I'm capable of non-faction bias, but usually people confuse their opinion with actual fact.

Then they will all svck. :banghead:

Here i am

Agreed.

Sorry, I did'nt mean that he was evil because of the money, But he seems extremely greedy.

If i'm forcing my opinion down someones throat let me know and i'll stop.

I have the tendency to do that pretty often!

I dont have a problem with it. I just hate people making baseless assumptions. Can you explain what makes him seem greedy?