Actually if anything, this is proof that the game -isn't- dumbed down, because the DETAILS ARE IN THE GAME, just as I've always said they were. If you actually -PAY ATTENTION- to what you are doing, the detail is in the game.

The game forcing you to pay attention is the exact opposite of "dumbing down"

the journal in morrowind was a great idea. but, not only didn't they further develop and advance the concept with new tech they actually got rid of it. unbelievable.

There was nothing "scary" about trying to figure out Morrowind and Oblivion. Sorry.

Awkward to use skills were removed, character creation was simplified, the opening tutorial is much easier, classes were done away with, levelling up is possible with all skills so no major/minor skills ect, menus were streamlined to make them ''easier to use''. Yes, the game was dumbed down.

I've heard a lot of people claim differently. Not [censored] your pants scary obviously, but rather the 'what do I do now feeling'.

a ridiculous point of view, imo.

half the time i can't understand what people are saying in the game (therefore, subtitles are almost always on) or it's too quick. the other half i'm battling my own brain that can't remember what i did 2wks/months ago on my second character or dead is dead character. way too much to remember.

plus, you're missing the fact on what using a pad/pencil journal can add to the game. and, in many opinions it increases enjoyment and roleplaying.

I'm truly a fan of the series and I don't see any mess.

Soooo many plares don't even ead quests anymore...or listen to them. It' all about button mashing through the content so they can get to the next level.

The game, the story, the setting, the adventure....it's all there for you if you experience it, not rush through it to get to max or next level.

Hours played is a better gauge than "what level are you?"

actually I have a binder sololy for skyrim because I forget what I was doing ingame after working on vehicles all day at work. They come in handy. also on a side note I wrote down the complete Dragon language in it too. <-uber Airman nerd

morrowind, oblivion, fallout3, new vegas and skyrim are my favorite games. and, i see lots of mess.

Kids watch R-rated movies too, but if a studio is targeting the youth demographic, they will shoot for a PG-13 rating.

And then there's this.

I honestly have no problem remembering why I'm doing a certain quest or certain part of one. Even after getting sidetracked for a while. Although I may not remember what locations I have to go to, the exact name anyway.

Actually, there are many many more skills in this game then there are in Oblivion, Morrowind, Daggerfall, and Arena. Character creation can be very deep if you want to make it that way.

The only tutorial that I ever even came close to dying in was Daggerfall...those damn rats kicked my ass.

Classes done away with? Not sure waht game you're playing. I have an assassin, a mage, and a hybrid. I actually get to RP a class rather than click a box. That garbage os soooo over-rated. Instead of clicking the word "blade" and magically being good at it, I actually have to use a blade to be good at it.

And menus don't affect gameplay one single bit.

So yeh.

You've hit the nail on the head there, taking your time is always the better option than rushing the game...too bad I can't leave any quest open for longer than a week because after that I won't have a clue what was going on with it. What would fix that, and let me keep quests open for longer, hmm? I wonder...oh wait, the bigger quest descriptions in Oblivion would be useful, because then I could leave quests for months and be able to refresh myself about their subject, rather than completing quests as they come and having to rush.

so tell me how you have "no problem" finding your way to a quest location when the map or markers are not used?

are you saying that you never have any problems understanding what npc's are saying? or, npc's never speak too fast for you?

what there is a lot of is meaningless, redundant and useless skills, talents, and perks. less specialization. less weapons, armor, spells and playstyles. less customization. and, since i've always custom classed every character i've ever created there has never been any hindrances placed on me.

menus can absolutely make a big impact on gameplay.

what this game got right was leveling up what you actually do in game (albeit less to level up) and created a great world to explore and roleplay in.

That's kinda what I was thinking...hehe.
If one uses the quest markers, then I guess they don't really need to know where the quest is, who gave it, or where it is?

Somne of the quests ask you to collect mutliple things from specific buildings in various towns and / or cities...how does one remember where to go and what to get...unless it's either written down or one uses the quest markers...which I don't.

Thus....pen and paper.

Jesus Christ, these old arguments again? You do realize you are completely wrong on all fronts, right?

1.) What skills were "awkward" to use in the past?
1a.) Most skills that were "removed" are still in the game in some fashion:
-Mysticism was merged into Alteration and Conjuration
-Armorer was -IMPROVED- and -EXPANDED- into something *MORE COMPLEX* and with *MORE DEPTH* in a fully fleshed out crafting system
-Hand to Hand exists in the game, and there are perks to allow you to allow specialization
-Unarmored exists in the game, and is supported with perks to allow specialization in that playstyle
-Athletics and Acrobatics were removed, yes. The skills to "run" and "jump" were removed, and instead we got deeper, more fleshed out skills in Pickpocket and Enchanting

2.) Character creation was actually made deeper, just simpler to manage.
-Skills develop on more than just a basic 1-100 leveling system with no further differences than some statistics. Perks now allow for much more customization and specialization within skills than ever before. Skills now have 2 or 3 or 4 different areas of specialization, allowing more to be done with each individual skill than ever before. A master in One-Handed can specialize in blades, axes, maces, or dual wielding. There is dagger specialization. A master in Conjuration can specialize in Necromancy and reanimation, or summoning of Atronachs, or Bound equipment. A master of Destruction can specialize in different elements of flame, frost, or shock. A master of Speech can specialize in being mercantile, or being a wordsmith and diplomatic.

3.) The tutorial isn't "easier", it's "shorter". Morrowind and Oblivion didn't exactly have "difficult" tutorials. You are just pulling this one out of your ass.

4.) Classes meant absolutely NOTHING in previous games. You lumped together a bunch of "major" skills labeled under whatever you wanted to call your class, but there was nothing at all stopping you from going outside of your "class" and becoming a master of any and everything in the game. Skyrim still allows you the freedom of leveling any and every skill from 1-100, but you are limited in what skills you can specialize in, thus making classes even -more- important in Skyrim.

5.) Which is bad because???

6.) Menus should be "easier to use", and Skyrim's UI is the "easiest to use" UI I've ever seen in Elder Scrolls, as well as being the most aesthetically pleasing as well.

exactly!

plus, truly trying to find a specific location in the game world by only using what the game offers is fun and challenging. and, it let's people do what this game does best: explore and take in the world.

that's why a better developed journal taken from their own games and others with new tech should have happened.

That never happens for me.

I never use subtitles, and not once have I ever had problems understanding an NPC.

I updated before you replied but to the last part no I have no problem understanding what theyre saying.

nell- wow, always understand everyone and all they say. impressive. so what's your answer to my first question?

I have always used pen and paper notes for The Elder Scrolls. It makes finding whatever you wish a little easier.

I use map markers, because I don't consider them "dumbed down".

But I don't see it as any different than in Morrowind when you didn't have a quest marker, but rather an NPC that said "Let me mark that on your map for you" and gave you a big yellow block on your map to run towards.

Considering that most main quests (not miscellaneous radiant quests) give you directions to your destination from the NPC (I.E.: getting to Bleak Falls Barrow "Cross the bridge and take the path to the northwest"), by paying attention, yes, you should be able to get to where you need to go without quest markers.