There was a thread recently about how quest descriptions were so brief that after a while you were completely at a loss at why you were doing what you were doing. Even finding the right place could be hard work.

So i decided to take notes at the time of the quest request like a cop ...


And it works! Example...

(Names have been changed to avoid spoilers and protect the innocent).

I was considering what to do next. I knew I had to clear a camp somewhere, but why? And for who? checked my notepad...

Oh yea, I need to go to Red River Watch place to get an Angel sword for this Redguard guy. He`s pretty upset about it and will reward me handsomely if I find it. Apparently bandit country... west of Whiterun where the black guy`s at.

or...

What`s Silent spear about? check notes.

`Clear Silent spear camp that the advisor at Whiterun wants me to do for the Jarl. A simple job, but one which will pay well and please the Jarl further. Get back to adviser once job done.` Ok.

I got lots of notes like this, even dated.

Ironic that in Bethesda`s attempt to dumb-down even reading we`re actually back to writing on notepads to know why we`re doing what we`re doing like they did 20 years ago. LOL!

You know I wanted to post this solution on the other thread, but when I was reading it I was reading it from my phone and didn't want to bother with the sign in and touch screen to post. Unfortunately I could not find it when I got on from my PC, but I found this thread so it's all good that someone put this idea out there.

There are people on these forums who are over sixty, yet Bethesda insists on trying to appeal to children who have no experience with the series whatsoever...I will never understand what goes on in todd howard's head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx6_MWVHZ4g

I'm sorry, but could you explain to me how this is relevant? Because they simplified quest descriptions? If so then I agree.

I actually always thought from the first time I played marrowind that the journal thing was a dumbed down rpg mechanic as I always take paper notes or now notes on my note pad via droid, but in any case to me having to the ability to simply be lazy and look at some in game journal for me then and now was a dumbed down mechanic for lazy players... the quest marker triply so.

Nice to see others are doing this. But it really helps to know why you`re doing things.

`X to Y then back to X` without knowing why s like dropping objects into a hole like a lab rat. We`re smarter than that, Bethesda.

I'm referring to the general outright removal or simplification of certain aspects of the game that admittedly made Morrowind and Oblivion seem scary when you first picked them up, but overall added to the enjoyment of the experience once you found your bearings. Okay, quest descriptions is'nt a massive loss, but still, I hate to see developers try to reel in younger customers while at the same time saving themselves time and effort by cutting down on the things that make the game seem big whenever you first start playing.

I often play all rpg games with a table top mentality which depending on the game and GM could mean hell total hell and failure for lazy players. More often than note our GM will reply to some questions with "check your notes" and if you reply you took none he gets such an evil glint in his eyes you might as well tear up your character sheet and count that character dead rather than live through the horror of the inevitable.

haha. You make me want to be a GM all over again!

i use pen & paper for notes. i find it alot more convenient

Lol it's also why I do not have much of an issue with some things others do with the game (though some minor annoyances) as it was once said long ago and is taken to heart by all my rp groups "A true and great rper can be given only, a large paper bag and a wrapping paper roll and still have one of the greatest adventures ever" Said by the late gary jackson at a con. where a topic came up expressing the worry of table top rpgs becoming streamlined for a new generation of players and how it could lead to a lapse in content. I believe this statement holds value with computer rpgs as well where the quality of the game is often seen as dumbed down and players fed too long with an over abundant of content find themselves somewhat lost without a large ton of options and spread sheeting.

I agree that they should have kept a little more detailed quest log in the game. It's one of the very few areas that I think Oblivion did better than Skyrim. You're correct, though, that pen-and-paper notes are the answer. I used to do that all the time back when I was playing text adventures, having to make maps and the like. Nothing strikes fear into the heart of gamers of a certain age like seeing the sentence You are in a twisty little maze of passages, all alike.

I encountered that in a call of cthulhu game I was in... my character shot himself.

Yep I do that too. It doesn't say much for the game that players are resorting to this.

Watch out for the GRUE! Good Lord, where is my torch and elven longsword?

-Loth

It`s incredibly ironic.

it`s almost like a full circle thing.

depends on perception... no wait it doesn't as it does show a bit of less work on the typing end of things on their part however though I like to be optimistic and think of it as a happy old school accident. The other thing I like about this thread as it's a universal mod that can be done by anyone on any platform.

Hold your horses there mate.
A good DM does make the difference in a good pnp session.
A computer rpg takes the role of the DM nowadays.
Difference is that in pnp players have infinite freedom and if a computer rpg wants to do a good job in being a DM they must provide as many options along with the content as possible first (usually along with an engaging scenario) and then polish and picture the "setting".
If a computer rpg does not bother to be a good DM in that sense, i might as well shut down my PC and daydream.

Oh and - good idea OP! I will try it asap!

yes that is true, but you also have to take a good look at what is being added or taken away and then it does fall into personal tastes... like the attributes thing aside from a few things that got left out like speed i really do not miss the old spread sheet way which more often than not broke my immersion to look through notes and plan nearly every aspect of my character's doings like an accountant planing a financial plan. In fact a few of my accounting fans called oblivion "TES 4 rise of the accountant" because of the attributes and leveling system and spell creation, but anyway my use of pen and paper was always used even in marrowing and oblivion I just take the optimistic side of this as a removal of temptation to stray from my note taking habits.

Ugh. Yeah, I remember reading on the UESP site about "efficient leveling" when I was playing Oblivion and thinking "how could anybody stand to play that way?"

It's a destructive road they walk. The people they make it for play the MQ and move on. The people who truly like the series are stuck with the mess. Also, there is a surprising amount of games trying tro be as generic as possible. Sounds like an upcoming Video Game Crash to me. The people who are fans of TES really like it. Hell, Oblivion and Morrowind still ahve a dedicated fanbase, and I'm sure Daggerfall still has something going too. Bethesda would rather have 1,000,000 people play it in the first two weeks and trade it in rather than have 3,000,000 play it over the span of ten years. Anyways, I digress. I tend to ramble. I'll probably get Alzheimer's one of these days.

It is rather confusing. Half of my quests I don't even know what's going on. I have to remind myself if I actually want to do it or if I don't want to out of RP reasons. Bleechhh.

I don't understand ????
in-game and it's a dumbed down mechanic for lazy players BUT do it out of game and it's fantastic !!! What's the differance ???? you're still doing the same thing !!! so it still should be dumb & lazy.......

Ha..i've done this since Ultima 7, where literally there was no journal or questlog of any kind..you would be completely lost without your own notes.

Yes i agree it does come down to personal tastes but let me express my (pessimistic) point of view.

Personally i did not feel my rp experience was hindered by the spreadsheets. Could we even call them spreadsheets? They are not that different from the current system. Skill points/perks system could be considered as a spreadsheet in the same sense, but we do need a way to track our progress/skills. I just found the attributes and the things they affected more rp-ish.

As for the spell making, i found it quite rp-ish and lore friendly to the game (since mages study and create spells). I always imagined the procedure of making a spell, as the spell making science where i calculated the parameters to create a magical new entity - not as a spreadsheet. As an rp-er this came out naturally.
Now from a gaming point of view it was a most enjoyable feature for me.