This right here is fallacious reasoning. By that logic you could basically invent lore simply because your guy has no backstory other than what you decide.

Plus, talking about a race's fighting abilities is also irrelevant to the question of racials as the skill bonuses awarded are incredibly minor. It seems you're dragging out what should essentially be a very short thread by attemting to widen the scope. Their racial power simply isn't that great. If you want to talk about their actual fighting skill according to lore, then accept that you can't justify your position purely on racials and skill bonuses, which is the topic and assertion you made initially.

Did you read the link?

Sure the reasoning is a stretch and it is kind of loony but what other conclusion would you draw from that? That the Dunmer in the sewers(CoC) has to be from a house that binded him to the ancestors? That is a limit they would not want to press. And yes part of the beauty of TES is inventing up Lore for your characters backstory.

Also see my edit to the post you quoted.

I also said based on powers and skills from the Lore. If you impose limitations on yourself with that it is your own problem.
Yeah caught it. Wasn't funny the first 20000 times I heard it either. None of my arguments rely on the Dunmer going poof ghost I win. The ghosts augment what is already a potent and flexible army. I never said every Dunmer is a master swordsman and Mage, they just have a tradition of producing those in good quantities. I am saying the army that is made up of them is. They are historically a strong and powerful force on the battlefield.

The edit you posted is again pure speculation. To suggest the ancestor could control who their flames burn other than protecting the user would make them more powerful than any mage in the game. Mages only stop their flames from burning them while they're holding them. Their own flame becomes a hazard to them once it's used on something else, and another's flame would definitely be a hazard.

I'm not really disputing that dunmer can summon ancestor powers, for the majority of the discussion I was working from the assumption that they can. What I am saying is you can only make the ancestor abilities seem particularly useful by speculation, whereas the other racial abilities are blatantly more useful without any speculation and based purely on the in-game combat; which is essentially the only realm in which 'racial powers' exist.

Again, if you feel the need to bring in tactics and fighting skills outside of the small skill bonuses, then accept that you can't justify your assertion based on the parameters of the title without drastically widening the scope.

Ok, no need to be so anol, and yes your arguments do kind of rely on dunmer going poof ghost i win and every dunmer being a master swordsman and mage. like how do you know that every single troop in the army is potent and flexible? and just because more spell swords are usually dunmer, suddenly every dunmer becomes a master spell sword? so dunmer are unbeatable on the battlefield because there armies are apparently so powerful? and when they lost to the argonians you could completely ignore it because they were weakened? if you ask me, this whole thread is just flamebait.

You didn't actually say that, you simply edited in a bit about taking it out of the game mechanic context, which means racial powers wouldn't exist at all.. y'know because they are purely game mechanics.

Imperial seems to be the most powerful in Skyrim because:

1) you find more loot, so you pretty much always have the best gear available.
2) voice of the emperor can turn the tide of any battle. It's the only power that has no weakness.

Histskin still allow you to get staggered for example.

An army of An-Xileel Argonians....oh wait, didn't they already do that? Argonians invaded Morrowind and kicked the living crap out of the Dunmer. Why so many Dunmer fled to Solstheim and Skyrim. Argonian's also did it to Mehrunes Dagon's Dremora forces during the Oblivion Crisis.

Bosmer army. Last I checked arrows out distance spells. Just fill the sky with arrows and if they all are expert to master archers good luck getting in melee distance. Plus with their alchemy they are making poisons to slow, paralyze,.and damage stamina health and magika. With their slight sneak increase they will sneak around and flank you with more arrows.

ok I know the OP is pretty much the same as the people who argue "Japanese would win ANY battle cause KATANA'S!" and it's pointless to argue cause despite people bringing up excellent evidence against his arguments, he still says "Same for your party. What evidence has your party put forth? Besides I am in an argument with what three of you? You have altogether not really put forth anything compelling."

Honestly looking at racials and what not I'd personally say every other race would win against the Dunmer, and traditionally my characters have been dark elves in TES.

Imperials wouldn't use their power to stop the fight, like other's have posted it'd be more like a charisma and the power would be used in a battle to find allies to assist in the surrounding area, and if you take into account their prowess in restoration, you have a bunch of battle clerics running about healing lost limbs, burn wounds, and even any possible mental damage brought about by seeing ooooo scary ghosts.

Altmer are master's of the wizardly arts. Looking at their bonuses to magic even the most unskilled altmer would be able to summon a ghost, let along a whole legion of archmages summoning daedra, on top of illusionary opponents and fortifications they could summon to funnel their enemy where they want.

Orcs aren't just berserker warriors but masters of craft and enchantment. Any ability the Dunmer can call upon can be negated by Orcish superior arms and armor alone, then take into account the berserking and it's ridiculous, no matter how many ghosts and fireshields you have.

And really these are just the main 3 you seem to be arguing against.

Based on the argument "every dunmer can summon one ancestral ghost to aid"; wouldn't each of the wood elves be able to charm the largest and most aggressive creature to their side in battle? I'm sure the dunmer's ghosts are nothing compared to... hmm... mammoths?

No use in saying that, I raised that point a long time ago and he ignored it, like every other vaild point raised in this thread so far.

orc is op

OP wins no matter what. Dunmer are superior in every way. /thread.

Yeesh so thats what happens when I argue while half asleep during finals week...not gonna do that again.

I reread many of the posts and I gotta just say one thing about my own. Ignore the ancestor ghost parts and it really is not to bad. The worst part was the lack of clarity and direction. I was all over the place as someone pointed out. It all made so much sense in my head lol...

For that I am sorry.

If someone wants to make a new thread to continue this discussion they may. Ill participate with more than half attention and actually be fully awake this time. FINAL ARE DONE!!.

But at this point I am content to let this botch of a thread die. I did kind of get swarmed here though. looking forward to it again.

Congrats. Now go relax!

Hope finals went well. Those are never fun.

Don't take it personally, though. We were arguing about races in Elder Scrolls. We all get too in to that, haha.