Maybe that will happen.. Only sad thing about that is that we're apparently the last Dragonborn. That is, unless killing the world-eater somehow changes everything.

i can agree with this. They both have faults, and everyoen should do a playthru keeping mind and ears open learn new things each time. They both great but people are gonna perfer oen side over the others......but play as u want to. Im a prostormcloak supporter BUT i still playing empire toons......for RP purposes they are using and perfering the corruption thats alrdy in place for years over having to start over again. They only get into the fight so that there was of life as assassins/thiefs are keep routined.


Our toon maybe the last dragonborn......but dosent mean that his/her heir cant be dragonblood. but on that not to sure, i maybe wrong but i think it was debated that thier was a difference seeing that they didnt think that every septim was a dragonborn was weird that every emperor that reigned was dragonblood and came from serveral mixed bloodlines dated back to septim but mixed with many different familys.

The stormcloaks are isolationists and poorly trained at that. If they win they will mostly go home and most of them would never leave skyrim so they are no threat to the thalmor.

As a leader ulfric would likely wind up wrecking skyrim fairly fast.

Yet it was somehow considered abandonment to let the other provinces go?.

The only reason Skyrim doesn't seem to need the Empire now is because it won the geographical lottery in that its the furthest province from the Dominion as one can get in Tamriel. They don't have to worry about being invaded by the Thalmor, because Cyrodiil, High Rock, Morrowind, and Hammerfell are all standing between them and the Dominon. And that's probably why the rebellion is going on; they're so far removed from any real threat from the Dominion that they feel like they could break away and do whatever they want without any repercussions.

Yet it's never happened. First Jagar Tharn took over posing as the Emperor and the provinces decided to war against one another. It got fixed. First High Rock got uppity and everyone wanted to get their hands on Numidium. Then a Dragon Break happens and the Empire's stability is restored. Then the Emperor got sick and his sons were accused of being dopplegangers, but then he got better. The Emperor and all known Dragonborn died and the Amulet of Kings was destroyed, yet it endured. Or as some people saying, it died and was replaced with a new Empire, just like how the Reman Empire rose after the Alessian Empire fell and the Septim Empire rose after the Reman Empire fell.


As for what will become the canon ending, I'm hoping that Alduin's death will cause a Dragon Break and result in another Miracle of Peace, this time between the Imperials and Stormcloaks.

The other provinces were swallowed by the Dominion, and in Morrowind's case they were invaded. Then the empire tried to use Hammerfell as bargaining leverage. What should convince Skyrim that they'll be any different?

Ulfric thinks they're a real threat. After his victory he says his chief concern is that the Dominion will attack before they're ready. The position of Northwatch Fort makes me think that they would try a sea invasion. The point being, however, that the empire is not helping. They're hurting.

So you see the TES story as being completely about one empire?

My favored outcome is an alliance, but with Skyrim ruling itself and no longer bound by one-sided loyalty to a flailing Cyrodiil.

Many of them are legion veterans.

Stormcloacks may have a point but their leader is corrupt, power hungry and self centered.

I know you're not asking me, but I for one see it that way. So much of the heroism in the games and lore is based on imperial founders and preserving their successors or what they set up. Now for the first time we get to be dragonborn ourselves.. and for me personally, it's hard to wrap my head around the idea of being the dragonborn who craps all over it.

You said it yourself. They need Skyrim.

Ulfric is hurting too. He's wasting both his and the Empire's resources in the civil war, which is just what the Thalmor intended. And it doesn't seem very likely that they'll invade Skyrim without first going through Cyrodiil, Hammerfell, or High Rock. While the Thalmor do have a clear interest in it, I don't think they're more focused on it than any other province that they have in their crosshairs.

Heh, rubbish. The Thalmor can't invade Skyrim as it is, and if Ulfric thinks otherwise then that's just testament to how big a [censored] idiot he is. And it's not the Empire that is hurting Skyrim's defense, it's Skyrim that is tearing the Empire apart and throwing all other nations under the damn bus, all for the sake of Ulfric's dream of being a new Tiber. Which he most certainly is not.

It's always nice to write long posts that are ignored, but oh well... The Empire had no choice but to accept the concordat. It could not invade the Dominion lands and so it could not have done anything if the Dominion had continued with skirmish tactics. Continuing the war would've resulted in massive civil unrest, as the already tremendously high war-fatigue continues to build. You can't fight a war indefinitely and more than half your country as well as your capital city has been prison-[censored] by the enemy, there simply isn't a whole lot left to fight with.

The Empire has since had a mere 25 years to regain its strength, and then Ulfric has to piss all over it and force a civil war that will undo much of what has been gained over the last 25 years. That's just plain idiotic, to be blunt. He's not on the Thalmor payroll, but he couldn't have helped them more if he was.

The Empire can bring Skyrim back into the Empire by simply renouncing the WGC.They could bring Hammerfell back by making whoever was the best leader against the Thalmor Emporer.They will do neither.They will make some Cyrodil feather merchant emporer and waste more troops and gold trying to put down the "enemy" in Skyrim.

And a point about Stormcloak racism
The Thalmor send death squads to eliminate dissedents and Talos worshipers
The Empire will "Take a little off the top" for anything from opening a gate to illegal border crossing
The Stormcloaks send a couple of drunks to yell at you late at night

I thought all the High Society of Hammerfall were already in the pockets of the Aldemeri Dminion. So much so that people who even talk bad about the Thalmors are either sent to the choping block or force to leave the country.

I for one, wouldn't underestimate the strength of the AD. Talos and the united Tamriel needed Dwemer Robots to defeat them. If anything, they are lazy and not weak.

Saadia's story smells worse than week old horker. The Thalmor are fiercely hated in Hammerfell.

Oh, and you know this how? The Thalmor's first objective is to remove Talos from the mythic. A free, independent Skyrim where they cannot enforce a Talos ban and around which humanity can rally a defense is a serious problem for them. They've got the empire by the gonads, so any threat from them is well under control. At the very least, if Cyrodiil makes any serious moves towards war, they'll know about it.

Remember their credo:

Skyrim is throwing what nations under the bus? High Rock and Cyrodiil are the only provinces left.

We all know the story about why the empire "had" to give in to the Thalmor. Not all accept the defense. The random redguard farmer who gave me the Stormcloak quest in my current game said "the empire is in shambles, look at all we fought for and they surrendered anyway." So there you go. Obviously opinion is divided.

Well, it's not a story that can continue, beyond the game. I've killed Ulfric and his bears already.

Mer in general, in my opinion, aren't that bad... It's the altmer I loathe. I've an altmer mage on Skyrim and had one in Oblivion, and they are evil characters (yes, I RP).

Anyhow:

The bosmer themselves were not really allies, as the Thalmor backed Aldmeri Dominion overthrew Valenwood's government, surprising the Imperials and their bosmer isles, which is what got them defeated.
The khajiit only lost faith in the Empire because the Altmer took credit for the return of the heavenly bodies.

http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Fourth_Era#Second_Century - Source

in other words, by my understanding, is that Valenwood was sacked and taken over by Altmer forces and the Khajiit only lost hope in the Empire because the Altmer were - to them - super powerful and able to bring about the end of the Void Nights.

Anyway you put it, the Fourth Era is a chaotic time indeed.

This is what bothers me a little bit... From an RP/Lore standpoint, A sequel is going to be difficult to make without making heavy use of save loads or scans.
I completely LOVE TES lore, so this throws me for a loop here a bit... I mean, so what happens really?
Don't get me wrong, I do love the number of radiant choices in this game, but if a sequel is to be made that doesn't at least scan a Skyrim save, what timeline will be held above the rest?

The Stormcloaks weren't able to stop the Thalmor from sending a group of Justiciars into Riften, Ancano to Winterhold, or two Khajiit assassins into Stormcloak lands. The Thalmor have been watching the Stormcloaks closely since the beginning and even if the Empire is driven out they'll be able to keep a close eye on Ulfric.

Either way, they have long-term plans for Skyrim which need not mean actually invading them anytime soon.

That doesn't mean you can save the empire. You just gave the dying man another gasp.

The Thalmor are in Skyrim because the empire is giving them bases and cover. Imperial jarls are expected to show deference and give access. I'm sure they'll still try to maintain a spy network, but it will be much more difficult without the empire's support.

Well, good. Death to the Empire. I'd rather live in world full of diversity anyway.

The answer is rather simple. Logistics. You can't capture a region the size of Skyrim without a very solid supply line and a good way of getting troops in place. The Thalmor have nowhere to land their troops in any proximity to Skyrim and supplies would have to be sailed in. That's no way to try and conduct a war. And no, the Thalmor don't have the Empire by the balls. It's a cold war with both sides trying to fool the other into making a critical mistake. The Empire currently can't mount an actual offensive against the Thalmor, but the Imperial Legion will still destroy any invasion force the Thalmor might send.

What also might happen if the Thalmor actually did land a serious force in Skyrim is that the Legion would march out and fall into the back of the Thalmor force. The Thalmor might learn about this but the Legion is a standing army and moving units of the Legion north isn't something that takes months to arrange. If it's done after the Thalmor invasion force has landed in Skyrim then there's not a whole lot the Thalmor can do about it.

Finally, I fully realise what the THalmor objective is, but I also realise that they're a patient bunch. They will of course attack Skyrim eventually, just not any time soon. They need to stop Talos worship but they need not do it in this particular century. Taking Cyrodiil and Hammerfell first would give the Thalmor a much, much better strategic and tactical situation, whereas a sea-based invasion of Skyrim is by and large doomed to fail miserably.

Essentially the entire mainland of Tamriel. With the Empire gone, all that remains are small nations that can't individually hope to stand against the Thalmor for long. You can try to forge alliances but alliances have fractures and if anyone would know how to take advantage of these, it's probably going to be the Thalmor.

He's a Redguard. Of course he's going to be bitter and trashtalk the Empire. If you stand and watch as your girlfriend gets [censored] then she's going to get pissed at you, even if you have a broken arm and her rapist is the big, mean-looking thug who broke your arm. Rational arguments are irrelevant, because you stood and watched as she got [censored]!! Same thing with Redguards relative to the Empire.

That doesn't change the fact that the Empire needed a peace to survive or that the survival of the Empire is what keeps the Thalmor from engaging in open warfare just yet. It also doesn't change the fact that there was very little the Empire could've done to defeat the Thalmor back around 4E175. Sure, they could've helped kick the Thalmor out of Hammerfell, but then what could be done to protect the borders from constant raids that would no doubt be the Thalmor retribution?

I wouldn't be so quick to pronounce the Empire dead. Potentate Versidue-Shaie and to a lesser degree Titus Mede I proved that with a little determination, an empire can be brought back from the brink of destruction.

I agree with your conclusion but not with all your reasoning. The Altmer are more sophisticated than the Empire magically. The size of their province is not an issue. At least in theory the Thalmor can take away the moons and bring them back at will. Even if this is a lie, it's true that the Thalmor foresaw the disappearance and return of the moons in a way that no one else in the Empire was able to.

However, the Redguard pretty much proved that they could stand against them, which proves that Cyrodiil could have as well. Titus Mede II is no great legendary hero. He's just some schmuck, the second generation of the lineage of some other schmuck who had nothing to recommend him beyond being better at King of the Mountain than all the other uninspired schmucks.

Furthermore, the banning of the worship of Talos is indeed a big deal. By it, the Elves hope to destroy all men, everywhere, and after men are gone, the Mundus itself. Far beyond ending this kalpa, they want to put an end to kalpas altogether.

Now, about Ulfric.

If Ulfric had two brain cells to rub together, he'd greet you with, "Hey, a new Dragonborn Emperor, the answer to my prayers! Make me High King of Skyrim and I will help make you Emperor."

That he does not do this is a strong indicator that he has fewer than two operative brain cells.

I tend to believe that Ulfric did do some nasty stuff at Markarth. But even if he didn't, he's such a weakling as far as making friends and influencing people that he was unable to avoid being framed for it. He's pathetic and one of life's natural-born losers.

His city is a cesspool. I don't blame him for the conditions of the Grey Quarter. I think we're meant to regard that as being something like the refugees from... well, several real world disasters which I won't address here to avoid a real-world argument. It seems clear these are people who arrived with nothing, dumped themselves on his city, and demanded to be helped out, after being poor and shiftless in their own home country. They are not exactly going and doing for themselves. The Dunmer who are doing that are to be found elsewhere in Skyrim, growing Nirnroot, trading, fighting. However, that's no excuse for the poor condition of the city itself (falling to pieces) or for the poor condition of the humans in his city.

The Altmer are masters at naval warfare. They have not shown themselves especially adept at land wars. It is not as simple as you make it out to be.

Funny, during my own country's cold war I don't remember agents of the other side openly kidnapping and harrassing people, or sitting in on official delegations at the insistence of our generals. Quite the opposite. The empire is bent over, badly, and after 30 years they don't appear to be getting any stronger. The Thalmor aren't attacking because they're already getting most of what they wanted anyway, plus a huge strategic advantage. Cyrodiil is likely also going to be leaderless and possibly in a civil war of its own.

No, I see it as Skyrim giving those nations hope by being unwilling to appease the Dominion.

Right, so, like I said- opinions on the empire being the only hope of humanity are divided.

k thats nice, but my opinion hasn't changed, Ulfric is a [censored].

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