Is it sixist?

Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:01 pm

On Earth, women are not suitable for medieval combat because they are physically weaker.

On average. On average women are shorter than men. That doesn't mean all women or shorter than all men. There are tall women. There are stronger women. Obviously they are rarer than the men that qualify, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

On Nirn, women are equally strong as men. Don't believe me? Just look at the stats! Obviously females in Tamriel have a higher muscle density than males since they are smaller but just as strong and fast.

Stat-wise there's been sixual dimorphism in TES games, but it has been much, much smaller than what we'd see on Earth.
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Chloe Mayo
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:49 pm

Well I'm a guy and I alway play as a female character in all games I play been that way for a long time.
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Spaceman
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:26 pm

Oh yeah, my "ridiculous position" that population strength follows a bell curve like pretty much everything else, hence exceptionally strong women can be stronger than the majority of men and strong enough to do everything needed in a military. You mean that?

I am so SORRY that your position based off the statements of ONE enlisted female must be correct, because you've certainly provided nothing else. It's not like there aren't examples of groups making incorrect statements about the group they belong to, right? That never happens. I'm sure your enlisted female is quite versed in the sciences, the relevant studies, and so forth. Or is it that since she's female she must magically know all about the female gender verses the male gender? I, on the other hand, must cite some studies? Well, I can do that. Maybe you'll consider actually trying to back up your position and attempt to prove that no physically fit female can match a physically fit male, which makes as much sense as saying no tall female can be taller than a tall male.

I'd note I'm not saying women are, on average, as strong as men. Merely that there's no reason to say an exceptionally strong woman can't be more than capable of doing a good job in matters of strength and more than capable of handling combat. So it is perfectly realistic for the Dovakiin to be a woman who engages in physical combat.

I know this wasnt directed at me, and the other persons opinion isnt entirely well thought out but..

I am going to state that an exceptionally fit female will not match an exceptionally fit male. Saying a female can do EVERYTHING in the military is wrong.
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Jesus Lopez
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:18 am

Been pondering this here "physically weaker" part...

Here's the thing: Women might be physically weaker than men, on average. But if you still decide to, say, grab a sword, and go do some fighting, doesn't it make you MORE heroic? You're taking and overcoming much greater risks than someone who's been born with inherent size- and strength-advantage. Heroism is all about overcoming your disadvantages, and doing the right thing regardless of circumstances, after all.
People who are born exceptional and keep becoming even more exceptional make for boring characters. The most interesting characters in stories tend to be those who have the odds stacked against them, but still manage to win.

Wouldnt the god choose the person with the best odds to be their champion though? I know I would if I was a god.
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Anthony Rand
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:12 pm

I know this wasnt directed at me, and the other persons opinion isnt entirely well thought out but..

I am going to state that an exceptionally fit female will not match an exceptionally fit male. Saying a female can do EVERYTHING in the military is wrong.

It depends on what you mean by "exceptionally fit". If you mean taking someone at the extremes of overall capability in their gender, then I agree -- obviously a guy X standard deviations above the norm is going to be stronger than a woman (in fact, the woman needs a standard deviation or two to catch up, as strength is one of the most significant sixual dimorphisms we have). If you mean they are exceptionally fit on a personal level, then that's not necessarily true at all. A tall, solidly built woman could easily be strongly than a significantly shorter man; height is a pretty huge factor in strength studies show.
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Samantha hulme
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:50 pm

Wouldnt the god choose the person with the best odds to be their champion though? I know I would if I was a god.

Akatosh is the god of time. Pretty sure "chance" isn't a factor. He just picks someone who will win.

PS. You'd be a crappy god. I mean, seriously, depending on chance? Tsk, tsk.
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Beat freak
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:31 am

The only silly thing i find about the game is the preference for briastplate briast molds in the armour.do you really think that you would see that in a set of real armour?
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Rusty Billiot
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:19 pm

The only silly thing i find about the game is the preference for briastplate briast molds in the armour.do you really think that you would see that in a set of real armour?

What do you mean? We don't want to guide axe blows directly into the center of the chest? Whyever not?
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Jessica Stokes
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:08 pm

It depends on what you mean by "exceptionally fit". If you mean taking someone at the extremes of overall capability in their gender, then I agree -- obviously a guy X standard deviations above the norm is going to be stronger than a woman (in fact, the woman needs a standard deviation or two to catch up, as strength is one of the most significant sixual dimorphisms we have). If you mean they are exceptionally fit on a personal level, then that's not necessarily true at all. A tall, solidly built woman could easily be strongly than a significantly shorter man; height is a pretty huge factor in strength studies show.

Yes, but I guess the point I am trying to make is that some parts of the military only the best of the best can get into. The SAS (our special forces), Commando's (our CT forces) etc, require a very difficuilt selection. To this day no female has been able to complete either of them. Only 3 females have passed our infantry corps training, and none of them made it to the Light Infantry Battalion I was posted to.
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Kim Bradley
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:58 pm

Yes, but I guess the point I am trying to make is that some parts of the military only the best of the best can get into. The SAS (our special forces), Commando's (our CT forces) etc, require a very difficuilt selection. To this day no female has been able to complete either of them. Only 3 females have passed our infantry corps training, and none of them made it to the Light Infantry Battalion I was posted to.

I have no problem with performance-based tests (that make sense) for entry into military service. No one with sense does. Naturally that will limit the number of women that can serve in particular roles, since far, far fewer will qualify than men (and far, far fewer even try to get into the military for various cultural reasons).

I don't think the Dragonborn has to be the "best of the best" in strength (though this is less of an issue since TES women are extremely close to TES men in terms of physical qualities). They just have to be good enough, have skill, and have the Thu'um. They probably get a freebie blessing from Akatosh to help them out too from a lore standpoint.

I mean, if we compare things to Talos, he didn't have to be a particularly great warrior. Nothing in the lore really talks about his one-on-one battles. He was a great leader, dragonborn, and had the Thu'um. Similarly, dragons don't seem to care about your physical prowess, it is your Thu'um that makes you able to match up with them (lore-wise anyhow, obviously it doesn't in the game). I mean, if we're going on strength being a big factor, dragons should win. They just have to grab you and crush the life out of you. They are something like 20-30 times your size and strength and it shouldn't be a challenge. Seems a bit silly to worry about women being the Dragonborn given that and the much decreased sixual dimorphism in the game.
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Ian White
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:51 pm

I have no problem with performance-based tests (that make sense) for entry into military service. No one with sense does. Naturally that will limit the number of women that can serve in particular roles, since far, far fewer will qualify than men (and far, far fewer even try to get into the military for various cultural reasons).

I don't think the Dragonborn has to be the "best of the best" in strength (though this is less of an issue since TES women are extremely close to TES men in terms of physical qualities). They just have to be good enough, have skill, and have the Thu'um. They probably get a freebie blessing from Akatosh to help them out too from a lore standpoint.

I mean, if we compare things to Talos, he didn't have to be a particularly great warrior. Nothing in the lore really talks about his one-on-one battles. He was a great leader, dragonborn, and had the Thu'um. Similarly, dragons don't seem to care about your physical prowess, it is your Thu'um that makes you able to match up with them (lore-wise anyhow, obviously it doesn't in the game). I mean, if we're going on strength being a big factor, dragons should win. They just have to grab you and crush the life out of you. They are something like 20-30 times your size and strength and it shouldn't be a challenge. Seems a bit silly to worry about women being the Dragonborn given that and the much decreased sixual dimorphism in the game.

Previously I had been trying to explain to someone, or debating with them as to why I would choose a male for warrior type classes. In a life and death situation I will take any tiny little advantage I can have. My Warrior class hasn't really started the Main Quest so the whole Thu'um thing isnt working out so good.. Males have other advantages when it comes to combat however, with testosterone allowing higher aggression and confidence, but there's no point getting into that.

I have no problems with the Dragonborn being a woman.. When I play a woman though I tend to play a Mage or a Rogue type class. I dont play one very often though, I find it hard to get into character most of the time.
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StunnaLiike FiiFii
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:38 am

The only silly thing i find about the game is the preference for briastplate briast molds in the armour.do you really think that you would see that in a set of real armour?

Always the negatives.
What about that it could distract a male enemy just long enough as give them the initial edge during combat, most old fasioned men tend to abhor hitting women unlike some of the monsters you get nowadays.
Also, to actually swing a sword or an axe at an angle that would allow the shape of this armour to guide it in is pretty difficult and an unnatural motion. You would have to be trained in killing women with briast plate armour, there is a perk for something similar to that I beleive.
Just for the record, sure I like some of the skimpy armours but some of them are just way to skanty for my tastes.
But us red blooded men do enjoy the female form, no point denying our nature.
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Richard
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:20 pm

Wouldnt the god choose the person with the best odds to be their champion though? I know I would if I was a god.

Once you bring religion in, all bets are off. Tamriel's divine beings can do what the [censored] they want, and it's from difficult to impossible to gauge their motivations. So who knows. Maybe they're making some kind of a point? Besides, with divine backing, if the god absolutely wants, the "hero" can't fail. Which wouldn't be heroic, since there's no effort. And why even bother using a mortal champion, if you can't risk failing.

What about that it could distract a male enemy just long enough as give them the initial edge during combat, most old fasioned men tend to abhor hitting women unlike some of the monsters you get nowadays.

This wouldn't be the case in Tamriel though, since women have taken part in combat for thousands of years, and nobody reasonably expects to have enough time to stop for some birdwatching in the middle of a fight.

Also, to actually swing a sword or an axe at an angle that would allow the shape of this armour to guide it in is pretty difficult and an unnatural motion. You would have to be trained in killing women with briast plate armour, there is a perk for something similar to that I beleive.

Actually, the problem with boobplate isn't that it directs the occasional sword to the middle of the briastplate. You can't penetrate hardened steel with any sword. The real problem is that briasts tend to be soft tissue(well, most of them anyway...), which means that if you hit the boob on a boobplate, most of the energy of the impact is transferred to the unfortunate wearer's sternum, which tends to be less durable than hardened steel in most cases.

Just for the record, sure I like some of the skimpy armours but some of them are just way to skanty for my tastes.
But us red blooded men do enjoy the female form, no point denying our nature.

I'll tell you a lil' sekrit: Women are all nekkid under their clothes. Don't tell anyone! :teehee:
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sophie
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:01 pm

Post limit.
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Alba Casas
 
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