yep and at this time in history alot of northen european countrys(maybe world wide thing but i dont no the facts of the matter) had powerful female charcters and interracial situations, it seems it wasnt until centurys later we became sixist racist facist bastardoes! I watched an amazing documentry that showed a roman noble women who was african in orgin but lived in northen england. Another afluent african women was found in norway at similar time burried as if she was a tribal leader. apprently these case studies where not unique either.

Personaly i find it easier now im older to get in character in the first rpgs i played i could only play a white male now black or white female or male, human or not i dont care as long as i have a good story for them! I still struggle to have altered sixuality for my characters, i thought about it wuth a woodelf character so i could have a house full of dude hunters but the lovie dovie speech pees me off. so no go. that doesnt make me a homophobie. You play as who ever the hell u want.

nothing wrong with this. I usually play male characters, but, thanks to mods, there's often a wealth of absolutely incredible armor solely available to female characters, so when I see a modder's hard work on mod databases, I feel compelled to download and play a female character.

I play mostly female characters in 1st person because I care more for them than males,and they grunt more nicely-Is that wrong?

i disagree i find it harder to play a gay female, as i cant relate to there choices, than a straight one. character choice imo is just about being able to understand your character, to be them you must know them, or be them to understand how to act think and be convinced by your character. some ppl will never be able to do anything but emulate them selves, this maybe an empathy problem or a imagination problem.

Imo u are only descrimnative if you activly think the race/six/gender you are not choosing is because they are inferior, then even if they are a made up race you should reevaluate your attitude.
Listening to people talk about playing women as six objects [censored]s me off, same with comments like women are too weak to be a warrior, so how many medievil women have you met!
try and offer out some modern day tribal women to armed combat, im sure youll get ur but wipped.
strength can be meaningless, long bows and silly over sized hammers may be two much to the average lady but a sword weight a few kg max lol yeah like, theyd be fine, all your big muscular thighs and sholders will get you killed fast you big unmanervourable easy target you. lol
Oh i also forgot - its a game who gives a damn what you do in your own time that only effects some moving pictures...

Personally I wouldn't mind if the female character model looked more like Rosie the Riveter than Barbie. After all my warriors are usually female orcs
I suspect it would be the male players who would complain.

technically, the quoted line is sixist.

not necessarily inaccurate, but sixist by definition.

Sorry I would shut up but this kind of thing really really annoys me.

Search Ronnie Coleman tonne legpress and you should find a male lifting 2000lbs. Not even a powerlifter, just a bodybuilder.

Please, please point me to where it says that it is proven woman have a similar natural leg strength to men. I have studied physical training and am currently a personal trainer and have never come across this, in fact quite the opposite. You cannot compare a woman and a man of equal weight and body composition. Why? An average guy who works out a few times a week will be around 75kg with around 12% body fat, wheras an average female who works out a few times a week will be around 60kg with 20% body fat. Females naturally carry more body fat due to having hips and briasts. If both of them were to work out in the same way the same amount of times per week and eat the right amount of food for their body, the male would gain much more muscle and strength a lot faster.

Yes I agree that there are exceptionally strong women, but if you compare the exceptionally strong women to exceptionally strong men it's clear its a different class.
Did you actually read what I said though? Women ARE allowed to try out for the SAS, but not one of them has passed.

I have stated that muscle size doesn't determine strength due to different types of muscle. I have also stated that mass of a functional type combined with proper training and experience is a massive advantage. There is also other factors that come into play when it comes to fighting, including agression and confidence. Testosterone is something which boosts both of those things a Lot (aswell as helping with strength and muscle reperation).

I agree that each person is their own person and some females would make better soldiers than some males. What I said was that in general a male will make a better combat soldier.

This is why I like to make my Warriors male. That is my opinion regarding the OP, and explanation as to why I believe that. It isnt sixism, it is an opinion based off logic..

Possibly
Sadly years of experience have moved me to a more jaundiced view of males than I had in my youth. Doubtless unfair to some of them (how many its unfair to being the problem)

I think that some people may not understand the meaning of being sixist or the idea of sixism. However, beyond that, both physical six and psychological gender are continuous spectrums, not dichotomous categories. For example, there are many intersixed and transgendered people. Concepts such as "masculine" and "feminine" are social constructions. Your personal concept may not be the same as other peoples' concepts.

As for a female/feminine character being Dovahkin and whether or not female/feminine characters are realistic in medieval combat settings, Skyrim and the Nord race in TES is inspired by Norse mythology and Scandanavian cultures. Goddesses in Norse mythology are extremely powerful (e.g., Freya, Sif, the Valkyries, etc.) They are also extremely feminine and extremely beautiful. I am not sure why anyone would not be intimidated by such a female/feminine character.

Part of the fun of playing tiny, fairy-like nature spirits is that enemies are misled by their perception that such characters are harmless and easy prey. There are many things in nature that seem harmless but are quite deadly.

Finally, strengths and weaknesses vary between individual people but have little to do with someone's physical sixual identity. You can see this in fantasy works such as Lord of the Rings (dwarves move slowly and use heavy armor and heavy weapons but elves move very swiftly and use lighter armor and weapons, but both are deadly regardless of any individual's physical sixual identity). On average, women have higher tolerance for pain, higher levels of stamina and endurance, and higher tolerance for cold. Also, the leg muscles are the strongest muscles on female bodies.

You also have a great diversity in masculine forms. This is brought up in movies such as U-571. Most of the American sailors are too big to fit into the bilge compartments to stop the leak and activate the rear torpedo. Only two of them are small enough to do so, and might be called "more feminine" compared to the other male sailors. One of them is ordered to go into the bilge and winds up drowning, but manages to plug the leak and thus save the lives of the rest.

Another example of this is during WWII where the Japanese Zeros were stripped of armor and the Japanese pilots tended to be smaller in build than their American counterparts. On average, there was no way for American fighter planes to outfly the Japanese Zeros. The Zeros were far more manueverable, but they could not take any hits.

There is some kind of mistaken idea that "bigger is better" or at least "bigger is stronger" but that isn't true.

Yeah, but I could say women are manipulative, evil and self centred, based on some that I've seen, but that don't make it so.

No, it's normal. I can play females, but I can't RP them well because I can't get into teh character nearly as half as I do when playing male. Some people can't play them at all for the same reason- no connection with teh character whatsoever, and some connection in these games is mandatory unless you just mindlessly grind and play for trophies.

Also the LRDG in WWII was restricted to those below 6 foot for para purposes. They were also crazily fit. Its not about size, its about physical fitness.

Those social constructions didn't come out of the blue. Want it or not, benjamin syndrom or not, we are a species using sixual reproduction. By nature, there's a difference between male and female. That's not only physical, as hormones for example imply a change of behavior too. Because of sixual reproduction, by instinct males tend to try to impregnate as many female as possible to have more chances to have a larger line of descent and spread their genes, and female tend to try to find one male that will impregnate them and make him stay to protect her for those long 9 months and then protect their child. Bonus point if she survive after giving birth. Because of that males tend to want to have several females (1-n) while females tend to want males who are entirely dedicated to them (1-1).
For humans in particular, as our species produces a near equal spread of genders, males have generally accepted to concentrate on one female to have a sure line of descent rather than fighting for several of them. But in fact, that's a social construction too. Upon the decision to condemn murder, humans have forced themselves into this family structure. And as you will notice, when a male gains enough powers to circumvent some of these rules, some of them go straight back to their primary instincts and collect females.

So really, there are more than physical differences between males and females, and the social construction that is telling what is masculine and what is feminine comes from our inner sixual instincts. Letting instinct control our lives would be a neurotic behavior, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Maybe in a few millions years we'll reproduce by cutting and there won't be any difference between males and females, but until then, our differences are a reality.


On a side note, someone mentioned how our society was emasculating us. While it's another debate, the fight for "equal genders" is exactly that : removing the sixual organs of everyone. Hence why it often doesn't make sense.

Errr... and happy character creation everybody!

I don't think it is sixist, but rather a difficulty getting "into" the character. I have difficulty getting into playing an Argonian. I like the way they look, and like the idea of it, but just can't make it work. I'm hoping for some mods or dlc that will add more stuff for Argonians that might help me work the character out. I like to get everything I can from a game, and would like to play a character from each race.

Oh yeah, my "ridiculous position" that population strength follows a bell curve like pretty much everything else, hence exceptionally strong women can be stronger than the majority of men and strong enough to do everything needed in a military. You mean that?

I am so SORRY that your position based off the statements of ONE enlisted female must be correct, because you've certainly provided nothing else. It's not like there aren't examples of groups making incorrect statements about the group they belong to, right? That never happens. I'm sure your enlisted female is quite versed in the sciences, the relevant studies, and so forth. Or is it that since she's female she must magically know all about the female gender verses the male gender? I, on the other hand, must cite some studies? Well, I can do that. Maybe you'll consider actually trying to back up your position and attempt to prove that no physically fit female can match a physically fit male, which makes as much sense as saying no tall female can be taller than a tall male.

http://pursuitofgnar.blogspot.com/2011/02/closing-gender-gap-relative-and.html

http://www.cdi.org/issues/women/combat.html -- wish I had that Army Times for July 29, 1994

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/01/ap-women-in-combat-011411/

I'd note I'm not saying women are, on average, as strong as men. Merely that there's no reason to say an exceptionally strong woman can't be more than capable of doing a good job in matters of strength and more than capable of handling combat. So it is perfectly realistic for the Dovakiin to be a woman who engages in physical combat.

Not sure what you are refering to but I never said anything about entering the game. I'm talking about playing as a male character, as a male I prefer my characters to stay male as well. Especially when it comes to Role Playing.

Yes, but thers a difference between six and sixuality
Lots of macho gay men, feminine lisbians and all sorts of people who don't fit stereotypes.

I think it was a reference to your saying about being "forced into it, like Tomb Raider"

edit: wow, I managed a multiquote, 1st time ever

Like others in this thread, I play both male and female characters in RPGs.

For me, I treat them alike - if I'm playing a male warrior, I get him the best armour in the game for his level - likewise for the female. I don't get my male character Daedric armour and my female a bikini-mod armor that leaves nothing to the imagination. I figure if I'm not going to get a loin cloth-mod armour for the male, why would I do it for the female?

And that's what "I" think is part of the argument about sixism in this game - that you would treat your characters equally. Would you have your female wear Forsworn armour for 10 levels because of how it looks, while your male character in the same situation would have the best armour for his level, making him look like a tank rather than calendar model.

The word you're looking for is transphobic, actually. Though I think I'd disagree.

If you're more comfortable playing as the gender they identify with, I see no issue with that.

The problem comes when a person doesn't want to play as the opposite gender because they're too weak, too frail, etc.

Then, yeah, it's sixist.

^^^^^ exactly this

I never play as 'me' or the character would be a boring empire (Local Authority) employee with 2 kids and a mortgage

Oh, I thought I have made myself clear. In any case, I don't mind playing a female when the game forces me to. As a matter of fact, in Portal and in Portal 2 you play as a female character. If you shoot the portals right you can see yourself going through the portal and when you do you will see your character as a female with a pony tail.

Right, and I can cope with playing a male when I have to (like in The Witcher) but like you would tend to choose to play my own six in RPGs
Enough other things to worry about when roleplaying without having to cope with things that are mostly unconscious and instinctive

I think I am in minority here, but I'm male and I have trouble adapting into female characters in RPGs... I feel like making my "reads" from the world as a male, and I feel I'm bad at playing female characters. Somehow, I think, the dialogue is always made as if the hero was canonically male. Dunno, I hear with women, it tends to feel other way round...

If it's eye candy I'm looking for I really don't need my character to be pretty. There are other ways to see beautiful women. And there are other beautiful female characters in the game, too!

The thing what I thought this topic was about is that in Skyrim, there really are no ugly character. Or, at least, they all look trimmed. If not sixism, then it's just following the western pop culture's views about being beautiful so much that there was no room for a bit more realistic-looking people. Such is the way of video games (and other entertainment).

It means you're a Redguard-hating racist.

I don't necessarily disagree.

as a man myself, I've encountered many others of my gender who I act, speak and behave in ways that make me wonder of their intention in conception.

In other words, I've met other guys who are such dikes that I think they're the result of a broken condem or drunk fling.

However, I've also met a few women who I would count along those lines as well.

but, it's certainly commonly expected of a man to be caught publicly observing a woman with well endowed features.