Your "arguments" consist of vague explanations of tactics that cannot and do not exist in this game. My favorite being "force your enemy to adapt to your pace of combat." You're making-things-up. You cannot dodge enemy's attacks. You cannot "slash and retreat," because the back peddling exploit is GONE since previous TES games.

Skyrim has more strategy than click click click?

was the OP's post not clear? exactly what is strategic in the duration of that battle where the Bandit struck him more than enough to where he JUST reached half, his hp and then all of a sudden the game decides he should die? please do not fluff up the simplicity of the Combat system with concepts that are not excecutable nor endorsed by the game itself.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Acrobatics, and I made extensive use of it. I don't think many people knew about it; it was one of Oblivion's quiet perks.

Ironically, it was tied to acrobatics, which many people are happy is gone. I'd rather have it back, if only to dodge.

Edit:
I responded to your arguments. I'm not sure what you're referring to with 'grievous wounds' or 'realism in combat'. There aren't any mechanics in Skyrim related to that, barring exhaustion when your stamina bar runs out. Refer to an example of such a mechanic perhaps?

I do not always have control. I have control ripped from me in combat with kill moves. I explicitly stated how and why. And I don't know about you, but in my playstyle I get hurt in combat; it's an occupational hazard of fighting with swords, and I enjoy it that way. I'm sorry but I don't see how talk of knees and thighs is relevant to the specific gameplay mechanics at hand.
Whilst I agree that backpedalling was a major problem in Oblivion, I don't think forced enemy kill animations are particularly realistic, and my argument is that they make combat much less enjoyable for me, more difficult according to my playstyle and actively discourage that playstyle. You're arguing that I should play more like you, i.e. avoiding getting hit altogether. I'd rather stick to my preferred playstyle of blocking, thanks.

Haven't you read the other posts in this thread? It's hilarious how vivid the imagination of the fan boi can stretch.

Calculate reach of weapon. Calculate swing speed. Calculate your speed. Calculate your position. Calculate damage done. Calculate your health.

That's how it "calculate's" if you die. Same as it "calculate's" every other hit in the game.

Now, maybe the way it does these calculations isn't the best, maybe it should include different variables. I'm not a gam designer, programmer, don't know the details here. But this game, like every other, does indeed calculate hits every time anyone - you or an NPC - uses a weapon.


Yes, I agree it feels unfair. I hate dying in games, especially when I feel like I COULD have gotten out of the way, or even already WAS out of the way. I get that. But the fact that you've been hit other times shows that you don't always dodge correctly, or in time, far enough, what have you. This is no different.

Yes, it can be annoying. Yes, you can hate it. But unless you want to argue that all hit calculations in the game are flawed - and for all I know, they are (although I doubt it) - then "I could have moved" isn't good enough, IMO.

In another thread on this topic, there was actually discussion about trying to determine the calculations used, etc., to see if this issue was some kind of glitch. Don't think it was ever done, though. Not sure it can be - I certainly don't know how, but someone else may.

No I skimmed through it, while the OP didn't pose a direct point, its completely understandable why it ticks him off, he may not feel the way "haters" might feel but in all the same saying things that aren't there is just laughable to me. those "calculations" from whatever source you dregded those up ARE NOT considered for Kill moves. it was concluded some months ago that Kill moves occer when the hit placed was going to kill regardless, so lets fluff it up with a Kill cam, For the player in question is that really the case?

and the more pressing matter is the player was removed from control and slain outside of his influence, Auto kill is disabled in my game, when I played (taking a break) you wouldnt believe the amount of times I saved my ass from a sliver of health, a chance I would not have gotten with the almighty Dice roll of the auto kill.


BEHOLD we've solved Morrowinds wtf dice roll system, but left the dice roll to have you killed


I jest I jest

The situation I most commonly use the sneak roll in is retreating from fights in which I am facing multiple opponents or need to make a quick escape because I have been wounded. Often times running does not get you out of the way of attacks fast enough and you catch on walls and enemies with which you come in contact. The sneak roll provides the most instantaneous burst of speed for escaping striking distance and allows you to dart between enemies without catching on them. I have used this tactic extensively with my assassin character. When I say "force the enemy to adapt to your pace of combat," I mean take the upper hand by employing tactics such as these: repeatedly knocking a blocking opponent back with fast and furious attacks so that he cannot respond, slowly draining his health and preventing him from launching a counter attack until he has the stamina required to shield bash you, then you fall off, dodge the ensuing slash(es), and come back in. Alternatively, with 2H weapons, you can take advantage of your superior reach to stay out of range of your opponent's attacks while smacking them repeatedly and falling back, then use a power attack to stun him and re-position yourself. You can also use a forward power attack charge, stun, and retreat method. There are several other methods of controlling the pace of combat, but I don't want to be verbose.

I would love to do away with all death animations also . . .I despise them for the same reason you mentioned. They break the flow, and are REALLY annoying when I'm fighting multiple enemies, making me lose track of where they are, I am, etc.

Refer to my response do Riskybiz for an explanation of your quotation. Slashing and retreating is perfectly possible because of your ability to knock opponents off balance and backwards with power attacks.

It's comparable to a sprint. You just told me, in a fancy way, that you can sprint away from enemies to avoid being hit. Yes, I know this.


Also known as stacking stamina so you can power-attack spam and keep them stun locked. When you're out of stamina, run from combat until stamina replenishes. This has nothing to do with forcing an enemy to adapt, and hardly strategy. This could also be looked at as an exploit. If you're "fast and furious," you're not power attacking. If you're not power attacking, they can respond. As for monitoring their stamina, I'll repeat myself-- YOU CAN'T.


This is also power-attack spam. You cannot keep an enemy out of your range-- be careful, you're making things up again. Please, feel free to be "verbose" since I don't think anything you've described makes Skyrim combat deep, interesting, or tactical.

As it is quite clear, I enjoy the kill animations. However, I agree completely that they are ridiculous when you are fighting multiple opponents. They take too long and opponents just stand awestruck while you perform them. And referring to a previous insult, I am not a "fan boi." I don't agree that kill animations should be entirely removed. However, I make concessions because I am honestly assessing the quality of the system and not blindly defending my favorite game, which Skyrim is not.

That's exactly it. It's like the diceroll again. I hate it

I edited my retort to your arguments into my last post on the first page by the way

I see there is an argument on whether or not there is "tactics" in Skyrim. There isn't, it's repeatedly clicking the mouse and hoping for the best (unless you sneak). If you want tactics, play Total War, you won't regret it!

ok, how about this, lets find a better more productive reason to bicker.

Alternatives to the Auto kill? actually considering other factors? Manually done? only possible on "staggering/Kneeling/crawling opponents?/player?

I'd like to see it based on both percentage of health and available stamina. For example, if your enemy has 5-10% health and you still have 90% stamina, expend all stamina to perform an auto-kill. Alternatively, if you have 5-10% health and your enemy has 90%+ stamina, they can auto-kill you. This might make stall stamina regen / drain stamina poisons / enchants even more valuable. An absorb health / drain stamina enchanted weapon could make you immune to an autokill in this system.

Personally, I'd just limit it to dragons, tbh, and get rid of enemy humanoid kill animations because of how they're implemented. Sure they're flashy, but I value having full, firm control over my battles.

Seeing as they have quite the following though, it'd be best to simply make them optional. I don't see a patch doing this anytime soon (or ever, actually), so I'll probably have to simply get a mod to disable them.

There is no reason to be nasty, I am simply responding to your questions. Larger weapons have longer reaches, just as they did in oblivion (it is documented on UESP if you want to check it out). As for the fast and furious approach, it also involves a stun lock approach of sorts I assume, and is primarily used to take down enemies using shields. The power attacks for dual wielding weapons reflect fast combat style as well, although I think spinning around in circles is ridiculous as it is entirely unrealistic and impractical in reality. I am not claiming Skyrim's combat is exceptionally deep or tactical, as melee combat has never been TES strong point, I am merely proposing that there are tactics involved. If you want to call them "stun locking" and "exploiting" you can, but exploiting an opponents weakness is an integral component of real fighting. Power attacks, knock backs, reach, retreating, and most importantly, timing are the main mechanics of Skyrim's combat system. It isn't fantastic, but when you use these in conjunction you can have a huge upper hand on opponents and there is some amount of tactics involved besides backing up and mashing keys. Oh and as for the roll, during sprints you catch on opponents and walls and get hit quite frequently. Rolls allow cleaner escapes, and also are faster for the first 5 yards or so, which are all you need to evade attacks.

I'm sorry I haven't been checking previous pages for new content so I didn't see your responses.

I would suggest, along side of the proper calculations IE hypothetical calculations I'd implement, that you would also be able to resist said Auto Kill based on your chars stats...being the stats are H/M/S that doesn't leave for much but its a start. so by pressing Bash, you could escape said skewering.

Thus

Player doesn't lose control, player has no one to blame but them self and their chars if they die, etc etc

i like and want the kill animations.

i like a dice roll %.

however, i want it when my health is actually a sliver and with more realistic distance/time considerations.

if they can't improve it, though, i'd rather that i just have it and the enemy kill be done away with.

edit: i like your considerations, risky.

I wasn't trying to be nasty, it's just how I debate when presented with something that I feel is completely made up. You're fluffing the Skyrim combat system to the point of rediculus. I never argued that 2H weapons have longer reaches-- they obviously do-- but you basically said that you can use this reach to "keep the enemy at bay" which we both know is total BS. You can't. They close the gap and attack with a dagger no problem-- yes you can stunlock them with a power attack but reach has NOTHING to do with that.


But you DID insinuate that Skyrim's combat is both deep AND tactical. Read your own posts, they make it look like this is more tactical than a PvP RTS game! I call them "stun locking" because that's what it is. I call an apple an apple. As for exploiting, it's exploiting GAME MECHANICS, not some kind of realistic simulation of actual combat exploits.

We could also consider a mini game of pressing buttons in the proper sequence to dodge the skewering...?

No it's really easy with a keyboard too. I take few full power attacks because I am not there. It's not hard they are not that fast. Let em' swing then step in and strike them.

I'm a shooter guy. This is my first non shooter game and I am enjoying the combat now. I do have over 550 hours and the moves are becoming second nature already.

I agree that this would improve the finishing move system and make stamina much more integral to combat, as you said. The potions/enchants side of it is an added bonus. As an added stipulation, you should not be able to perform long, time consuming finishing moves while surrounded by enemies.

There's a mod out there that's already fixed this. I guess you're SOL if on a console, though.