Considering the mountains, the rivers and other terrain in skyrim. Having the quest marker on your map doesn't mean you'll know how to get there. Example recently I got the quest to travel to Bloodlet Throne. Yes I got a quest marker showing me the location. But did I know how to get there? No It was up a flipping mountain. I didn't know where the path up was. So the claim that quest markers remove exploration is bull. Being able to walk up a 60 degree slope removes more exploration then quest markers.

If you have map, and your being asked to go to point A. The only reason the person asking shouldn't be able to mark that location on his map is if he doesn't know where it is or he's an [censored] [censored].

I have never understood the "Quest markers ruin exploration argument" I do not need my hand held and told its time to explore.

You will be able to tell how big a "problem" this is by seeing how many mods are made and downloaded by PC users.If it is a small percentage then Bethesda can reasonably assume it is a matter of some people like anchovies but most don't( at least the anchovie lovers do not demand all pizzas have anchovies on them)
If it is a sizable number of downloads then they should probably put more effort into it.

In Skyrim many locations are random, making it hard to give an detail description like in Morrowind.
One solution might be to simple make target visible on map, and let you focus on it as today. Keep the custom map marker who work like a quest target anyway.
Now this will require an better journal who show target and location.
Daggerfall had a better journal 15 years ago for random quests.

Well as I see it the problem isn't one of simple resources, but a problem of procedural dialogue. An NPC can be scripted to give directions from one place, but what if you wish to ask a random NPC directions? They can't all have voiced dialogue for every quest, from every location.

By procedural dialogue I mean generated on-the-fly, so you ask your first NPC directions, they have no idea, never heard of it. So you ask another. He tells you to travel X miles down Y road to Z town, and ask again. You go there, and ask another random NPC, they give you more finer directions, travel X miles north-west till you see a tower, then travel north from there. Those are the sorts of directions that can be most easily generated and displayed via text dialogue, but currently cannot be easily generated by voiced dialogue.

And so we have the solution of spamming your map, and providing a magic arrow. But this solution is removing exploration and AI/world interaction, there is generally little reason to talk to NPCs (unless you're told to by your arrow) other than to try & fish for random quests, and it seems to me that world exploration is one golden way to improve this.

'Tis true, but IMO the magic compass removes even this simple pleasure. Nearby locations become visible even if you cannot see them, but I've noticed that when the compass is disabled, you get little terrain clues as to nearby locations. You don't always pick up on them, but they're there. You just don't NEED to pick up on them if you have a magic compass blaring out anything nearby to you all the time.


Indeed, but even mods can only do so much, the problem is that the current direction giving system is now inherent to the engine, and there is no real way to change it. I wouldn't wish for magic quest markers to be removed from the game, but I would wish it to be a selectable option rather than an absolute need. I would prefer AI interaction to magic knowledge.

Very interesting this threading problem

There's a function perhaps, that's similar to the "The next station is *click* Westminster" annunciator

Find the nearest named location to the character giving the direction and draw on a list of locations

"From *click* go west to *click* and then northeast to *click* - a temple hidden in the forest nearby"

Hmm mountainous archive of possible locations to choose from to speak the dialog...

But NPCs move around the terrain, following the roads from locations to locations- so there's a big SkyrimGPS list somewhere

I'd buy that app

'This app is currently only available to NPCs'

Dagnabbit

"I show you the location on the map". Or the game tell you "Map actualized". So disable the marker and use the map instead. Easy as that.

I agree with OP. I tried disabling the HUD but it just make finding the destination so much harder. I agree that we should at least be able to ask NPC for direction then keep in journal (like in Morrowind). So I don't know why people are saying "if you don't like it, don't use it", let's see them finding where they're going without the compass and not become frustrated. (using clairvoyance all the time?) Clairvoyance in itself is not really immersive (you're just staring at the purple trail of light) but like OP says, it's a good optional feature, just not good for exploration. I guess the map is also a good alternative which is available to us, but a little returning feature of NPC with directions would make things much more immersive.

Certainly Quest Markers shouldn't be discontinued and the whole concept to getting rid of them is severely overrated. Quest Markers are rather useful, If I didn't have quest markers finding Kharjo would be next to impossible.

Oh sorry Mr Bigot if some of us prefer the simplicity of playing a games console over the endless headache that is having an up to spec pc. You tool.

They should accomodate both the people who want to use quest markers and those who don't.

This is fairly simple to do really. All they need to do is add a bit more descriptive detail to the quest journal. E.g. Instead of "Speak to Lod" it should say "Speak to Lod at the forge in Falkreath" and instead of "Locate Grimslever" it should say "Find Mjoll's sword Grimslever in the Dwemer ruins of .. north-west of Dawnstar."

Then for those who don't want to use the quest arrows they can simply untick the quest in the journal so it doesn't appear and everyone is happy.

Both of those locations where you get the quest updates they tell you where to go. Mjoll tells you that Grimsever is in Mzinchaft and the guard tells you that Lod is the blacksmith.

If you don't like them... Don't use them.

You'll never get the overwhelming majority of people wanting to remove them. The reason they exist is because the overwhelming majority wanted them in Morrowind. Likewise fast travelling.

There is no reason it can't be included in the journal entry though. Sometimes I have more than 20 quests sitting in the Miscellaneous list and many have become meaningless because I've since forgotten the details.
For Bethesda adding a few more words to the description would not have been time-consuming. Its not hard to type!

Ahaha

The overwhelming gaming public who never played Morrowind or didn't enjoy Morrowind maybe.
And if you read the thread you would read countless reasons why that isn't viable and how it could be made viable.

Even though I completely agree with the notion that you could just ignore them, or you could just disable them (on the PC version at the least), for many quests it is impossible to play without quest markers. This is because the journal descriptions are extremely minimal, and for misc quests they're actually non-existent. If there at least was an option to get more detailed quest descriptions from the journal, or even better to also re-read the appropriate dialog from the journal, then the quest markers would be truly optional. Previous TES games had this, Skyrim not having this was a step backwards.

As it is now Bethesda dismissed much of the usefulness of the journal, often giving you no other choice then to just follow the arrows.

Oh, I've read it. I played Morrowind. I played it obsessively, and to be honest it was one of my few criticisms of the game. That and the shonky character models. Otherwise the game still stands up pretty well even today.

Removing them though, THAT'S the part that's unviable. To accomodate the small percentage who DO want these things removed you'd p!$$!ng off the vast majority. Simple things such as objective markers are standard in all modern videogames. The idea of wanting them removed is frankly ludicrous these days. They're a central game mechanic.

I think the majority of the minority want them to be truely optional.

I'm all for you guys wanting to find your own way about but how do you manage it. I use the compass and quest markers and I'm constantly bringing up the map to make sure I'm heading along the best and quickest route to get to my destination.

This, over and over again in an endless loop.

Actual directions as to where things are in the game = 0

Removing the HUD doesn't fix a damn thing, it's just the normal post by someone who doesn't really understand the game they are playing.

Opinions are like (censored)...everyone has them. Some stink. Just as this waste of a topic. It's all about choice. They give you freedom to play as you want, and it still isn't enough. For some, I guess no matter what is done, there will always be complaining.

And apparently skipping over an entire thread and repeating arguments that have been debunked is popular too

Did you read his post? He wants the choice to play without quest markers. There is no choice in the matter. 'They' are not giving us the freedom to play without quest markers in such a way that would be viable...so they actually aren't giving us the freedom to play as we want. Your post completely contradicts itself.

I'll need to get myself a list of safe insulting names to call people. because I called someone a male chicken about two months ago and got suspended for about a week and I still have a big red warning line underneath my avatar.