Quest Markers, and why they should be discontinued.

Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:32 pm

Quest Markers need to be discontinued because they diminish the single most important appeal of any Bethesda game: The World.
  • The World is the main character of any Bethesda game. We all have different play styles, we all have different values, we all do things our own way - but the fundamental truth is that the only universal appeal of a Bethesda game is exploring a massive world. Bethesda themselves have tacitly admitted they aren't the best developers for combat, or dialogue, or character modelling, etc. But they know - just as we know - then when it comes to building a living, breathing world - they are second to none.
  • Thus, it is of utmost importance for gameplay to reflect the strength of a Bethesda game: exploring a World. Anything that diminishes exploration of the World, is diminishing the appeal of a Bethesda game. Anything that enhances the exploration of a World, is enhancing the appeal of a Bethesda game.
  • Quest Markers are a toxic inclusion that psychologically override the feeling of being in an explorable world, diminishing the universal appeal of a Bethesda game. When arriving at a new city, instead of the emotional reaction of having your breath taken away by a large town to explore, you are perpetually forced to acknowledge that everything around you is a secondary asset to your "objective". This sensation, the wonder, the joy - is tarnished. You are no longer tasked with the pleasure of exploration, of talking to strangers, of entering all buildings to locate your target. Instead, NPCs and buildings are trivialised because you are actually told they are trivial. The city "shrinks". Everything around you simply becomes an "asset" in a game.
  • In Elder Scrolls, you used to have to get directions from an NPC to locate something, for example, an NPC would tell you: "Head south from town until you reach the bridge, then head west until you reach the cave. It's just north of the stone statue". This system is actually an incredible enhancement to the feeling of being in an explorable world, for two reasons. 1. It engages NPCs meaningfully. and 2. It compels the player to actually view their surroundings, greatly expanding the scope of the world by having them physically navigate it with tactical instructions.
  • Naturally, some form of guidance assistance should be present in future games, which of course, brings me to mention Clairvoyance. Clairvoyance is actually a PERFECT replacement for Quest Markers for two reasons. 1. It is entirely optional and uses an expendable resource (magicka),.... and 2. It doesn't spoil the destination, it just provides the direction you should head in to reach the destination. For those two reasons, it would work as the perfect solution to those who get stuck. Oh, and if someone is going to state that Quest Markers are also optional and that I am making a needless complaint - that is inaccurate. Although you can indeed turn off Quest Markers in Skyrim by deactivating quests, the journal does not provide location information for most quests, which actively forces the player to require the use of them - or using the Journal, M>locate function.



In conclusion, Quest Markers should be discontinued because they diminish the sensation of exploration of a world, and the world is the single most important factor of a Bethesda game. For future titles, location information should be entirely journal-based from NPC directions, with the inclusion of the optional Clairvoyance spell for those requiring further assistance. This is the most ideal system to enhance the world, and thus, enhance Bethesda's games further.
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Sarah Knight
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:47 am

If you dont like them, dont use them, simple as that, Im pretty sure there is an option to disable them. Just like fast travel, its there, but you arent forced to use it, Pointless topic.
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Melanie
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:11 pm

HUD opacity = 0

Done.
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Thomas LEON
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:42 am

I agree,

And to all those who say don't like it don't use it, due to the voice acting instead of text speech, instructions are kind of derp and the quests are built around the quest marker making it almost impossible to perform quests without them.
I wouldn't have a problem with it if the game was made with no quest marker in mind and it was added as an afterthought.

They improved them in Skyrim but not for radiant quests (Fetching the Jarls sons sword for example)
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Brandon Wilson
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:55 am

Hrm. You make a good few points actually.
I can remember my surprise upon finding Quest Markers after playing Morrowind and moving onto Oblivion. At the time, I thought it was a great idea because it meant I could cut down the time it used to take me to find the individual(s) I was looking for.
After a while however, I began to miss the interaction with average people. The quests that used to come from them, just by asking a few simple questions. (You can still do this of course by choice.)
I suppose in a way, it kind made me feel like I had accomplished something a little more than just following a little mark on my compass or map. Bu that's just me.
I think I've already seen a few of these threads around, but it's always nice to see what other people think!
Good post OP.
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Emmie Cate
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:23 pm

No. They should exist as an option as they do right now. But have the NPCs give directions instead of you just automatically knowing were it is. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean other people don't. So having them as an option doesn't harm anyone. The problem is they decided to stop having NPCs give good directions so it ruins the immersion for some people..
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Justin Hankins
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:49 am

If you dont like them, dont use them, simple as that, Im pretty sure there is an option to disable them. Just like fast travel, its there, but you arent forced to use it, Pointless topic.

I politely request you actually read a thread in full before commenting, because I have actually already rebutted you in the last bullet point. I discuss how quest markers AREN'T optional.

In future, please read a comment properly before responding.
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Rob
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:57 pm

No, they can be turned off quite easily should you feel like you need to play this way.

Options, they are a good thing.
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Destinyscharm
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:54 am

If you dont like them, dont use them, simple as that, Im pretty sure there is an option to disable them. Just like fast travel, its there, but you arent forced to use it, Pointless topic.

Not possible.
You cannot play the game without questmarkers, it simply cant be done. Because there is hardly any dialogue, and certainly no directions.
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Melis Hristina
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:15 pm

I politely request you actually read a thread in full before commenting, because I have actually already rebutted you in the last bullet point. I discuss how quest markers AREN'T optional.

In future, please read a comment properly before responding.

Quest log, deselect quest...

No more marker.

No more argument, soz. ;)
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Zach Hunter
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:33 am

I politely request you actually read a thread in full before commenting, because I have actually already rebutted you in the last bullet point. I discuss how quest markers AREN'T optional.

In future, please read a comment properly before responding.
HUD opacity = 0

Done.
This, And if you didnt get it for PC, Then you [censored] up anyway. Sorry.
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Brandon Bernardi
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:09 am

HUD opacity = 0

Done.

bShowQuestMarkers=0 is actually preferable, but you are missing the point.
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Jynx Anthropic
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:23 am

eliminate? No. Make them optional.

You can pull up the map, check a location, and simply head northwest or whatever rather than use the marker. But leave it there for people who want it.
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Ann Church
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:24 pm

Although you can indeed turn off Quest Markers in Skyrim by deactivating quests, the journal does not provide location information for most quests, which actively forces the player to require the use of them - or using the Journal, M>locate function.

If you dont like them, dont use them, simple as that, Im pretty sure there is an option to disable them. Just like fast travel, its there, but you arent forced to use it, Pointless topic.

Certainly it's an "option" but far from a reasonable one.
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ShOrty
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:37 am

Not possible.
You cannot play the game without questmarkers, it simply cant be done. Because there is hardly any dialogue, and certainly no directions.

Then why [censored] about questmarkers?
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lilmissparty
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:43 am

Quest log, deselect quest...

No more marker.

No more argument, soz. :wink:

You still havent read the OP.
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Roisan Sweeney
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:21 am

PLEASE [censored] READ BEFORE COMMENTING. YOU CAN'T PLAY WITHOUT QUEST MARKERS IN SKYRIM BECAUSE THERE ARE NO DIRECTIONS IN THE JOURNAL.
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clelia vega
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:41 am

No. They should exist as an option as they do right now. But have the NPCs give directions instead of you just automatically knowing were it is. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean other people don't. So having them as an option doesn't harm anyone. The problem is they decided to stop having NPCs give good directions so it ruins the immersion for some people..

I do agree with that. If an NPC is going to give you information about a quest, it should be required that they tell you where the quest is to take place. I understand that may not be possible with some radiant quests, but with fixed quests, it wouldn't hurt for an extra line saying "hey, that cave is northwest of X near Y."
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Claudia Cook
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:09 am

PLEASE [censored] READ BEFORE COMMENTING. YOU CAN'T PLAY WITHOUT QUEST MARKERS IN SKYRIM BECAUSE THERE ARE NO DIRECTIONS IN THE JOURNAL.


You get a quest, you open the map, there is a new location. Head off in the direction of the new location. Problem solved.
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zoe
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:16 pm

Quest log, deselect quest...

No more marker.

No more argument, soz. :wink:


No you idiot. They aren't optional because when you turn them off there are no literal alternatives to give directions. You are forced to turn them on briefly to locate where you need to go, because the journal doesn't say so.

WHICH IS WHAT I SAID ABOVE. Read before commenting! Ugh!
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Grace Francis
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:45 pm

PLEASE [censored] READ BEFORE COMMENTING. YOU CAN'T PLAY WITHOUT QUEST MARKERS IN SKYRIM BECAUSE THERE ARE NO DIRECTIONS IN THE JOURNAL.

Firstly, there are books that inform you of such a thing.

Secondly, mobiles give you directions to landmarks.

You still havent read the OP.

You still aren't listening. :wink:
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Cameron Garrod
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:03 am

No you idiot. They aren't optional because when you turn them off there are no literal alternatives to give directions. You are forced to turn them on briefly to locate where you need to go, because the journal doesn't say so.

WHICH IS WHAT I SAID ABOVE. Read before commenting! Ugh!

Oh I read it.

It just didn't make sense.
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TWITTER.COM
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:38 am

Quest log, deselect quest...

No more marker.

No more argument, soz. :wink:
I refer you to

And to all those who say don't like it don't use it, due to the voice acting instead of text speech, instructions are kind of derp and the quests are built around the quest marker making it almost impossible to perform quests without them.
I wouldn't have a problem with it if the game was made with no quest marker in mind and it was added as an afterthought.
You get a quest, you open the map, there is a new location. Head off in the direction of the new location. Problem solved
That is just using the concept of a quest marker and making it more difficult on yourself, quests made without a questmarker in mind are far different than ones with the quest marker in mind (
Firstly, there are books that inform you of such a thing.
For every single quest radiant or otherwise?
The Quest marker needn't be removed, I'm just asking for quests not to be built around it.
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Francesca
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:13 am

Then why [censored] about questmarkers?

because its the way the game is built using Quest markers as such a crutch why one should -Censored- about them.

Notice how the usefulness of NPC's has dwindled over the years.

from something to get info from in a new area.

to some common fluff with no other reason for being than flighty immersion and quest objectives (making them god mode).

Had the dependancy of quest markers not been so prevelant their'd be a little more enhancement to the "world"

and of course since the forum has taken fangs about truth and opinion or whatever

I input

IMO.
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Darren
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:34 am

Hrm. You make a good few points actually.
I can remember my surprise upon finding Quest Markers after playing Morrowind and moving onto Oblivion. At the time, I thought it was a great idea because it meant I could cut down the time it used to take me to find the individual(s) I was looking for.
After a while however, I began to miss the interaction with average people. The quests that used to come from them, just by asking a few simple questions. (You can still do this of course by choice.)
I suppose in a way, it kind made me feel like I had accomplished something a little more than just following a little mark on my compass or map. Bu that's just me.
I think I've already seen a few of these threads around, but it's always nice to see what other people think!
Good post OP.

Thanks.... It's pretty easy to tell who has played from Elder Scrolls from Morrowind and who has started from Skyrim or Oblivion. Cheers xx
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Adam
 
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