Even if I never used spellmaking in Oblvion and thought it was cumbersome, I understand the love and passion for it. It is/was one of the signature-things in Elder Scrolls.
I hope for you guys that enjoyed it so much that it may come back, although I have never fallen in love with one particurlar feature. The feel of the game as a whole is more important to me. But hey, different opinions right. I am most excited for the Enchanting feature in Skyrim. It has endless possibilites with the double enchantment perk on lvl 100. Possible to have two enchantments on every weapon/armor.

And guys, I would think it would be possible to express you concerns without turning to insult individuals in Bethesda or be condescending to other people with other views. Don`t behave like children...

Praying to the Night Mother usually occurs when somebody wrongs you... maybe all of us spellmaking fans should start praying to the Night Mother for Todd too.

Not sure why some are so adament against the best feature of the magic system.
I still used all magic schools even when I had spell creation, I used all of the schools with all the older spell types.
We need the magic back in this series, and consoles are not to blame, magic is one of the rush jobs in this game it only feels halfway done, a foundation of a system.

What are you talking about ? Spellmaking has been available for weeks in the Construction Kit. Just go get it and see how complex it is to create new spells and ask yourself how they'd get that to work in a user friendly interface in the game and still keeping a semblance of balance.

I agree. Todd (I call him that because we're best buddies, but to be fair, he prefers "Hot Toddy") has totally betrayed all us people who he's never met in his life. He's failed miserably, by creating a game that's sold millions of copies and won countless awards for every aspect of its design. How dare Toddykins and his team choose to design their game the way they want it to be designed? How. Dare. They.

I am incensed. But no worries, I'll let the Todd-meister know how angry all us people who he's never even laid eyes on are next time I call him. I got his celly, so this should be easy. Except I keep forgetting whether I have his number listed under Todd, Todd-meister, Hot Toddy, Toddy-Toddy-Toxen-Free, T-dizzle, Jam-Master T, Toddy Ruxpin, Toddykins, or Snagglepuss. This could take a while.

Spell creation should have been in the base game and mods should not be relied on to fix a mechanic that has always been apart of this series.
You say balance I say options.

I'm adamant against those who feel this sense of entitlement based upon it being in prior game. Those who feel that this "crutch" is such a magical addition that puts magic into the magic system. Those who don't time the time to look at how it would work in the world of Skyrim. I'm arguing again those people, not spellcrafting. I don't feel spellcrafting being in, or out, of the game makes it a better, or worse game.


You're totally missing the point of his point. Also spellcrafting is basically a mod in itself as no other mechanic in the game allows for as much control.

I indeed do miss this as well.

I'll just divert both of you back to http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1352641-really-no-custom-spellmaking/page__st__180__p__20407116#entry20407116.

I agree that it is an absolut mess to fix, but it isn't the player-who-bought-the-game's fault. When Bethesda saw that both traditional spellmaking or the dual-casting alternative were dead ends with the new effects, that's where the experiment should have ended.

I didn't pay $60 to be guinea pig for some experimental gameplay element that even it's own creators gave up on half way.

You missed the point. I'm talking about the complexity of Spell Making. Not the trivial thing it was in previous games. The real power behind spellmaking you can see in the construction kit and the increased complexity that stems from the more advanced spell system of Skyrim.

If you go by this mindset you will be pissed off a lot in your life.

As for your theory it isn't hard to see that if you take away a great tool the consequence will be a somewhat reduced ability. However you need to adapt and look at the system within the context of the game itself and other games of similar genres. Spellcrafting was a mistake from the beginning as it gave mages more power that any other archetype and allowed for flexibility that was only present in mods.

Sequels in a series improve on things, its hard for me to see a beloved feature get removed then on top of all of that we lose I do not know how many spell types.
That crutch was a staple of the magic system for well over a decade.
We have tried the system we see its lack of depth and content and how shallow it is, we look at the past entries in the series and see the depth we could have had with all of our spells and spell creation.

No I got his point, he is saying mod it in, I would if I was on PC.

You're still missing his point. You're still missing the grand idea behind his point and if you cannot even see the logic within his point then why should your opinion hold any weight.

He isn't saying mod it in he is saying he is saying, what I wish many people would say, that you should look at spellcrafting and how it would fit into Skyrim. The problem is it wouldn't and I've yet to see anyone pose a logical solution to this problem which is why this whole argument is based upon wants and wishes rather than logical solutions.

I know a reason that they gutted the magic system was because of the shouts, the shouts is also a form of magic and could have been included in the spell system, as it is it does feel like a gimmick an experiment.

I do like become etheral I would like that to be moved over to illusion or alteration.
I see what you mean now, your other post soundled just like, "well mod it in" for me that is never the answer mods are to enrich the game however you wish that should never be a crutch for what Bethesda has done, I am not saying you insinuated anything of the sort now.

I think if they gave themselves more time it could have been done magic seems so unfinished right now, it does not even seem halfway thought out.

See my above post.

Regarding your first part, because I am a loyal long time fan of this series that is why my opinion should matter.

If Spellmaking was a mistake "more power that any other archetype and allowed for flexibility that was only present in mods", what's Smithing in Skyrim?

That is another reason why the lack of Spellmaking is so out of place in Skyrim, because everything else has a crafting element. You can make your own soup for Talos sake.

Smithing has predetermined multipliers. You do not have exact control over things like weight, damage, etc. The same goes for alchemy, and also enchanting as of now. Spellcrafting allowed for complete control voer certain variables. That level of control was only see in enchanting and thus made mages incredibly powerful. I've never seen a system that allowed for such control in any RPG I've ever played and that's why I think it was a mistake.

Smithing and spellcrafting aren't even comparable given the level of control within each. Not to mention smithing is normal part of RPGs, spellcrafting was just a stupid slider that allowed for control over variables which makes no sense in magic.

Also its said somewhere I cannot remember where mages can do anything and magic is the most powerful force on Nirn. With spell creation we had open ended options that allowed us to make our mages how we wished.

I agree the lack of spellmaking is out of place in an ES game even more so in Skyrim, just like you said everything else has crafting of some sort why can we not have the best feature of magic.

did you really just insinuate that Smithing is a lesser evil than Spell making? that the major reasons touted by folks who are "Glad" its gone are even more prevelant in Smithing?

oh lawd....I....just no

That was the beauty of the system we had complete control the option to make the spell we wanted. The incredible amount of control was a major feature of the series for some time over the course of several games and that is no mistake, its a feature.

Sure spell creation had more control, so you do not think it should be in because the numbers made no sense, what if there was a pretty new animation for it in Skyrim, it does not make sense in Skyrim I can craft 100 steel-daedric cuirasses in an hour. Spell creation is the logical, mathmatical, study of the arcane. It allowed a mage to explore deeper into their art and craft, heck its even mentioned that spell creation is practiced at the College.

Oh I also did not make every spell very powerful I made spells that suited my character and the power level I wished for them to have.

He is pulling out all the stops.

Me too, a big lol.

Who says spellcrafting has to work identically to how it has worked in the past? I don't think you should have control over some variables. If I want to merge Fear and Fireball into a single spell for example, the damage and magnitude should decrease for the Fear and Fireball. If I want to remove the AoE component from any given spell, it should increase its magnitude. I should also be able to create entirely new spells. For example, mixing Absorb + Shock might be a Mana Leech. Depending on which Shock based spell you use would determine whether it was single target, channeled, or AoE. What is missing to me are Touch spells.

That was not a mistake, that is what made magic wonderful. It made mages incredibly powerful without the need for applying spellmaking to destruction spells. I guess that's why you don't see what made spellmaking wonderful, your description has you coming across as being one of the type who couldn't go any further with spellmaking than making bigger versions of destruction spells.

Explain.


Modifying spells would be an equal counterpart to smithing as that's basically what smithing is. Creating spells (that are already present in the game) would be an equal counterpart to smithing.

As for it being mathematical I doubt that in the world it's presented in the way it's presented to us. The mathematics side is to give us some insight on what is going on rather than having it be a total abstraction.


I grew up playing games where magic was fixed and couldn't be modified, outside of leveling or through skill trees. For me I don't really care if it's in the game or not. However I'm arguing outside my general stance of it being
1: A balance issue
2: Being unnatural
3: Not working within the current magic system.

I don't think the current magic system is perfect, however I think once expanded upon it'll provide a much more balanced system that has a more natural combining of spells that allows for failure or success.

In a lot of ways I'm arguing for a system like Magicka (the game) that provided an interesting take on magic that always felt more organic and magic like.

mages and wizards are supposed to be more powerful than a random barbarian running up to you with a shield and axe. thats the point of magic