You know, after putting a couple of hundred hours into a game you should be able to mess around a little. Gods if people knew what ungodly damage I do to my characters with the console this re-perking issue would be long forgotten as the high and mighty indignation spiraled even further out of control.

A simple thing like this has all of you arguing over absolutely nothing. Enjoy.

Why exactly would they have to change the game's difficulty? You can already one shot everything and face-roll through the entire game, I don't see them changing the difficulty because of Smithing and Enchanting, why would they for something as trivial as this? It is not hard to imagine a system that further stops players from power leveling smithing/enchanting/alchemy then re-perking and retaining the benefits. Want to know how? Any improved item goes back to the BASE value after re-perking. Any Enchantments are STRIPPED from items after re-perking. Any potions made with Alchemy revert to the the UNPERKED values. Any items crafted with Smithing, however will still remain. Re-perking should be available through a quest chain similar to that of curing Lycanthropy. Gather X, Y, Z items - burn them in a fire - kill your Shade bam.

Don't forget that all of the gold earned from the "Iron Daggers of Wealth" and the "Potions of Money Making" you sold while grinding those skills will now be forfeit. Now, four to five couriers per day will hand you "Final Notices" on your staggering debt. Oh, and while you were out searching for a Word Wall, the good folks at Rorikstead Repo just dropped by your home(s) and repossessed all of your alchemy labs and dining room furniture...

I believe the Daedric artifact idea I suggested a few posts above would do that. A small and finite pool of re-perking opportunities, requiring questing, gold, and sacrificing unique items to accomplish. Enough to correct some decisions made during the levelling process, but not enough to game the system and require difficulty adjustment.

The key is providing enough reperking to correct mistakes, and limiting it to that.

I can understand wanting to reset your perks, but in my opinion it would take away most of the consequence of your choices which I do not want.

Then you don't have to use it. How hard is that to understand? Absolutely nothing would change for you with the inclusion of an option of something you can ALREADY do through the console. The only "change" to this is that console players now would have this option without implemented the whole console system for console players. I play on PC, I don't really care if they add this or not, but it hurts my head how incredibly dense people are that think this will have any impact what-so-ever on their game. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GO RE-PERK IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO DO SO FOR FEAR IT BREAKS THE GAME OR RUINS YOUR IMMERSION. This is the EXACT argument players use against people who say that Smithing, Enchanting, and Alchemy are "overpowered". Don't like it, don't use it. Isn't that what TES is all about RP lore nerds, self-restraint and playing by your own rules?

The whole argument that we don't have to use it if we don't want does not make sense. If it is in the game it is meant to be used...it is part of the game.

The reason the console svcks is that it is there and you WILL use it if given the opportunity. Using the console is not part of the game on consoles therefore consoles contain the game developers wanted to create...nothing more and nothing less...that makes tje console versions the defacto standard of the game.

I would be curious to know if anyone on the PC has NOT "cheated" the integrity of the game by giving themselves additional perks and such...

After all...why wait until level 70 and invest perks into lockpocking for treasure hunter when I can just add away instantly...to me this is cheating the integrity of tje game...to others this is not



THe developers have done their best to balance the game around not using the console, but on PC that is thrown out the window...reperking and console removes the consequences that I feel make the game fun...to each their own



To head off the zealots...I believe if it is in the game by default it is meant to be used not ignored...i believe the game has been designed with that options use in mind..ignoring options is not an answer

So what is your position on Smithing, Enchanting, and Alchemy? What is your position on Fast Travel? What is your position on Sneaking? Smithing, Enchanting, Alchemy and almost any combination thereof make the game way too easy for me. What do you suggest? Fast Travel makes the game feel really small and makes quests feel redundant and boring. Sneaking destroys any semblance of balance in the game and allows you in most cases to kill everything in a hit without so much as being seen.

rebalancing the game to help with the overpowered abilities is the answer



Now rebalancing the game for reperking would be quite a chore, it would mean designing the game entirely around adding and removing perks to fit each unique situation....if you need stealth the game would expect you to rotate perks into stealth, if you need heavy armor for a situation the game would expect that you rotate perks for that...it would completely destroy the game in my opinion, but to each their own

I think this will be a great idea and bethesda should implement it within a patch , highly unlikely but would be pretty cool. Not much use for PC gamers but for consoles gamers it would be a great addition where you can play around with different characters of your liking rather then starting a new game and wasting another 100 hours just to get the character you want.

People against this idea what is it to you? it is not going to cause any problems to you is it now. I think its a great idea but doubt we will see it. Pretty self centred people i guess.

Consoles gamers will welcome this idea of reperking so they dont have to buy the buyers remorse. Some perks i brought are pretty useless now...would like to change them but i cant. This will encourage gamers to see more of the game they would never experience.

You would not use it. Just as you do not cheat (by using glitches or text-console commands) will you not use for what you see no need.

This does however not automatically mean that such a feature should be excluded from becoming a new feature of the game.

All what needs to be understood here is, really, that some players, and not always, want to reset their perks. It is the same as with wanting to save and to load your progress, to have multiple save files, to play the game as a non-human, to kill lots of monsters, and to have tools to modify the game. It all once used to be a request by players at one time when you look back at the history of computer games.

If anyone would be asking for a cheat then the answer would be quiet simple, but it is not what is asked for.

I do like the request, and because the skill system is in my opinion not one of the best. Being able to reperk, even when it is only for once, would be a great help and allow me to fix my character's skills. I would then continue playing the game and be happier about my progress. To me it makes a difference if the choices I make are with NPC interactions (leading to different outcomes in the story), or with the skill system. I do have a clear idea of what I want, only the skill system seems to disagree now and then.

And rather to derail into fixing the skill system do I find a feature like a skill reset generally useful. Not just for Skyrim but for all future TES games.

It's no use arguing with a brick wall, so I won't even try.

What I will do is provide step by step for PC gamers that choose to re-spec their perks, and keep them within the game rules (i.e., not adding more perks than you should have for your level).

BEFORE YOU ATTEMPT THIS: You should have a named save file (i.e. not an auto save or quick save) of your character before you start, and once you've finished, mess around with things and try to make sure everything is working as expected before you go off and start adventuring again. If something went wrong, you may need to reload to that save, and you don't want to have wasted a lot of playing time.

First, you should plan out exactly what perks you want to get rid of, and what perks you want to take. There is at least one good perk calculator on the web that should help a lot- it also tells you what your skill levels should be in order to have that perk set. They will have to equal the same number, as there is no way to give yourself unspent points (at least, that I know of). To remain true to the rules of the game, make sure you are removing points with prerequisites before you remove the prerequesites themselves. In other words, remove all of the other points in smithing before you remove steel smithing, etc. Also note that going out of order can cause issues. List each perk to be removed, in the order you want to remove it, by the name that is seen in the perks screen.

Next, you want to implement your remove perk list. You can do this one of two ways: You can type each command into the console in game separately, or you can put them all into a text file, then use the "bat" command to execute them all. I prefer the second method. The syntax for the removeperk command is:
player.removeperk id
id is the hexidecimal number assigned to that particular perk. You can find it either by using the help command in the game (such as help "Novice Illusion" 4) which will give you information about things in the game with the words "Novice Illusion", including the if code, or you can just look it up online. There are plenty of sites that have if codes for everything. So, and example of removing novice illusion would look like this:
player.removeperk F2CA9
Note that when you look up the id code, it will probably be in the form of 000F2CA9, but you can safely leave off any leading zeros in your codes.

Next, put a command like the above for each perk you want to remove in a text file (notepad is fine for this), and save the file as "removeperks.txt". You can actually call it anything you like, as long as you save it as a plain text file.

Adding perks is the much the same. The only real difference is that the command is:
player.addperk id
instead.

Make a second text file with all of the perk add commands you need and save it as "addperks.txt".

Once you have both files, copy them to your skyrim folder- the one with TESV.exe in it. Then run the game as normal.

After you've loaded up a game with the character you want to change, hit the tilde key (~), to bring up the console then type:
bat removeperks
and hit enter. Then type
bat addperks
and hit enter. You could have added the .txt, but it is not necessary.

Once you close the console, if you've gotten all the perk ids correct, Your perk trees should be exactly as you wanted them to be. I also recommend deleting the removeperk and addperk files once you've completed the process, so you don't accidentally do it a second time, or on a different character.

I'm considering making a simple program that will allow you to select each perk to remove and add, and even allow you to put in your character's skill levels and current perks to ensure that (other than the act of actually re-assigning your perks) you arent' cheating at all. The program would then create a text file you could use with the bat command, alleviating any possible typographical errors, and making the process much easier.

It would be much nicer if there was a command to simply remove all perks from your character and give you back that number of points to spend as you wish within the construct of the game, but alas, they didn't make it that easy for us.

Reperking cannot be compared to saving and reloading a game or killing monsters...that is not even apples to oranges that is apples to hammers

The game was not designed and balanced around reperking thusly in order to have this option the entire game would have to be redesigned from the ground up...

No game is ever completely balanced, which is why many of the games with skill trees now offer a reset option. I think It is only a matter of time.

You think people did not argue about load and save? It still is being debated today. Some games will only allow you to save at specific locations or after reaching certain goals. If it is good or bad is merely a matter of how well it has been integrated into the game.

I am not a fan of "easy buttons" in games...i enjoy the consequences of actions that some games impose. Skyrim has very few consequences left as is and the ability to reperk would just further this game down the road of simplistic pseudo-RPG realm wher it is oh so close to teetering off

And that's just weird. Because that isn't a "character", it's a faceless, constantly morphing cipher.

Having perks be resettable means that you don't want to ever have to make a decision. You want to constantly be able to undo any and all decisions, and have nothing set in stone.

As far as realism goes, do you not want objects to fall to the floor when you drop them? The very idea of "I want to be able to rewrite my character from the ground up at all times" is just simply bizarre.

You can't bring logic into it and say you can't un-know something. The fact is there is no real-world way you actually LEARN these perks in the first place. I mean how do you learn to smith? How do you actually learn to do anything? Even when you train with trainers you spend what 5 minutes learning about something? No, a lot is abstracted here and the idea that you only learn things when you level (which is unnatural) is just a game play construct.

As a game play construct, modifying your perks is something that Dungeons and Dragons (paper and pencil version) does these days. Not because it's logical, just because it is essential. You might want to restart a new character and play through again, but some do not and it would be better if they could correct some of their bad choices within the single game play. That's my opinion anyway.

D&D limits you to retrain a maximum number of perks per level and that seems reasonable to me from a gameplay standpoint. They probably won't ever do it, but if they did, it would just allow people to correct some mistaken perk selections as they became more familiar with the game. Note that this wouldn't be such a big deal if the perks weren't in these "trees" where the perk you really want has to be purchased by picking a bunch of perks you have no interest in (and thus your bad choices wasted a considerably larger number of perks than they should have).

Uh, no that isn't how it would work. The manner in which I talked about re-perking being a quest prohibits players swapping perks constantly. You don't need to "rebalance" the game at all. You still have the same amount of Perk points available. The only thing you are doing is allowing players a way to correct misplaced point expenditures instead of forcing them to live with a gimped character or re-roll and rehash all of that crap to get back to where they were. Previously, players would get around this by creating save files and testing out skills or abilities, or if the "class" branches or quest branches, saving trying both ways, and then seeing what the optimal path was. It was a hassle to have to do that. It's just like games that have rewards for quests and DON'T show you what exactly the rewards are. Players end up having to get on a wiki or forum, or do what I listed above. I think there should be consequences for actions that you have to live with in Skyrim, Perk points should not be a consequence, especially considering you do not get a sense of how something is until you have "maxxed" it out and by that time it is too late. We should be looking for the "consequences" put into dialog options and quest paths.

Who freaking cares about this notion of realism, if it is conducive to gameplay it is a good option. That's it. No lorenerd excuses that it ruins their character who has apostrophes in their name. It isn't about undoing any and all decisions, just Perk points. They should put their consequences into quests, dialog options and a WORKING reputation system.

I'm not necessarily a fan of how some of the perks have prerequisite perks that make no sense. I could live with mere level prerequisites in most cases - although the spell level perks make sense. It's perfectly logical to require somebody to get the Novice Destruction perk before taking the Apprentice Destruction perk, but it makes little sense to require people to take a perk in Dwarven smithing before they can take Orcish smithing.

But being able to alter what you know, and swap out knowledge is just ridiculous.

Being able to alter what your character knows and swap knowledge A for knowledge B is just plainly weird.

So is EVERYTHING ELSE about Skyrim. I bet most of my character's name conventions and Perk choices are weird to you. I frankly don't care. I want to play a fun game. I don't see how an OPTIONAL feature has any sort of negative impact on your or anyone else's game. There are a ton of people put off by Fast Travel to, deal with it - don't use it if you don't want or if it does not fit into your parameters of what is "logical" in your gaming universe. Arguing against the feature based on "logic" is downright re-tarded.

Why have perks at all if they can be altered after the fact?

Why not just give the "easy button" approach and give every character every perk at the beginning of game...then just think about it, how awesome we don't even need to play the game





Obviously I am being facetious...but you do hopefully get my point...altering the consequences of perks makes the game banol and uninteresting...at least for me

We do live in a world of entitlement and instant gratification so I should not be surprised by people wanting something without working for it...i guess i am old school where i enjoy the perk more with the journey included than without the journey

I don't know what the problem is...there are two ways to reset perks already:

1. Go back to a previous saved game you made before you spent the perks you don't like (this is selective, although easier for people on pc who can actually put saves in a separate folder to re-insert into the save list as necessary); and

2. Restart.

Beth's games are about choice and consequences. With the exception of a couple of topics, most of the 'complaint'/'problem'/'issues' threads on these boards basically boil down to people not liking the choices they have to make (i.e. But I only want to use destruction magic, and nothing else!) or the choices they have made (i.e. I wasted a bunch of perks in lockpicking and now at level 50 I don't need them!).

This is a role playing game...not a linear fps. In linear fps, it doesn't really matter what your choice is, whether you take along a 'shotgun of mass genocide' or 'the super duper robot gun of ridiculous firepower', because the path and the result are scripted for you. RPG's are different...you have the choice of how you do things, and the choice you make now should and does impact on how things are a long time into the future. Unlike Skyrim's mammoths, the game has a long memory...and people should keep that in mind when they are making their game choices. However, in all fairness, a lot of people rush in and choose perks without really thinking about them, and thinking about what they really do...and that is a problem that isn't confined to perks. So many questions can be answered by looking at the help menu, or reading and understanding what the perks do.

Maybe I'm just old, but I've played several games where I get to feel powerful using everything the game offers, without the game becoming boring or me going completely god-like. Big part of role playing is dealing with the choices you make.


With Beth's stability issues in their games? You think that would really work? I'd be happy to see some of the loadgame exploits gone, but I don't want the disability of saving my game every 30 seconds due being nuts unstable (latest patch appears more stable for me, but I've only played two smaller sessions with it so far - it did ruin the graphics on the second startup though). I'd even endure a respawn-for-a-price mechanism over being forced to reload - in dice times we usually had some methods of getting back, but with a heavy penalty, even if it wasn't impossible to get killed especially if we played stupid.

Does D&D have a computerized game master? The player trust level drops considerably when you leave out the powers of a human brain to control the rules. A human game master can, with some imagination (which they tend to have), rebalance anything that is completely out of whack by original design.