There are many 100+ hour players in this forum who do nothing but complain about the game as if they hate it. Contradiction, maybe? Usually, I can tell if I'm going to hate a game after investing only 5 hours. If I've invested 100+ hours (some of the complainers have even declared they've played for over 300 hours) in a game, it's a safe bet that I actually like it. Seriously, folks.

BTW, I played the hell out of MW and Oblivion (though I didn't like Oblivion as much because of the damn Oblivion gates and how I felt pressured to complete the main quest... still I got at least 100+ hours out of it). So, I'm not one of the n00bs that many of the complainers whine about for liking Skyrim too much because they simply never played the "better" earlier titles.

I like Skyrim. I like what they did with the perk system (it effectively removed the ability to make a god of all trades that the earlier levelling algorithm exposed). I like the fact that I don't even have to pursue the dragonborn quest if I don't want to from the very beginning without feeling like it's trust upon me. The world seems a lot closer to MW to me than Oblivion, and that's a good thing in my opinion.

Who cares about not being able to find weapons or armor that aren't as powerful as what you can craft. Simple solution: Start a new build and don't use the crafting perks. Spend your perks on other things. Then, you'll be happy to find Daedric armor that's been enchanted... guaranteed. If you want to make it feel like Morrowind, don't smith and don't fast travel (aside from using the horse and cart).

Man, and the complaints about the writing? Yeah, maybe the lore was better written in Morrowind, but the voice acting is 100x better in Skyrim... along with character movements, NPC interpersonal interactions, etc. That combined with the graphics should make this game the most immersive yet! They even brought back some old Morrowind tunes. And, what exactly is wrong with the story-telling? I don't get it. I've played MW and OB, and this sequel is clearly a sequel. It's lore is derived from the lore of the others. Unless you have an issue realizing continuity and have difficulty thinking systematically, I have no idea how it is so difficult to connect all of it into one mass. I think the story-telling is great.

Can you clarify the topic of this thread please?

I read the Original Post, but I'm confused on what is meant to be discussed.

If it's that you don't like complaints... complaining about complainer threads don't usually last long. But maybe there is another point? Please clarify. Thanks.

I too am a bit confused by the title, but I see some good points in your post.

Voice acting... deep story... voice acting... deep story...

In an RPG, I'd rather have a deep story, one that fits the narrative of the environment portrayed in said story, than voice acting.


The above spoiler is just one example.

I prefer Skyrim to either MW or OB. The planes and the leveling system in OB troubled me. The silly office politics and excessive details in MW caused me to drop the game when I hit a MQ chapter that I not only could not solve, but when I read a walkthrough, I realized that I've never be able to solve it. It was enormously silly and full of FedEx runs. No, I can't remember the details. I also disliked how slowly things were at the get go. I did like levitate, though and despite my complaints about it, enjoyed the play I did get which was pretty long.

To my eye, Skyrim combines the gameplay of OB (and improves it quite a bit) with a good deal of the complexity of MW but not, in general, the tedium I found there. I find the complaints about the quest bugs to be not very weighty because a game of this size cannot really be debugged much further w/o an extensive external beta testing and that's impossible in a game where a leak would hurt sales. I'm not sure how much an external beta would have helped.

I am a bit troubled that those who bought the game and disliked it were stuck with it due to the Steam contract. I bought mine from Amazon and got it on 11/11/11 but never saw that it wasn't returnable. I think disclosure, if it was there at all, should have been more obvious.

The trend is the accumulation of 100+ hour players posting how they hate the game. The OP then goes on to discuss common complaints and his opinions on them.

You seriously couldn't pull that out of the OP?

I see an interesting trend... the trend is that the most avid complainers about Skyrim also claim to have invested 100+ hours of their time playing it. I find irony interesting.

There's no irony. It just takes some time to see what there is behind the shiny and dragons. Or more like, what there isn't.

It's not unlike the trend where people spend dozens and dozens of man hours with cars to try and find a solution to the pollution they put out.

Evolution goes no where if those who see flaws after lots of experience do not step forward, otherwise everyone who likes the status quo will obviously have nothing to say because they like it the way it is.

This, in brief, is how I view Skyrim as well. Though, I did enjoy the deep lore of Morrowind probably a bit more than you did. I have no difficulty at all translating that lore into Skyrim.

100+, you've pulled back the curtains and revealed the short, stubby man who claims to be the wizard of Oz and, yet, you are still posting on a forum of a game that has disappointed you so. Irony, indeed.

i agree if you don't like the game way put so many hours into it?

Where did i say it disppointed me?

Sure it has disappointing aspect, but as a whole, no. And i bet that same applies to most people who post their problems here.

My gf and I has been together (on/off) for almost 12 years, and she still complain about me. Time spent guarantees no peace...

Lots of complainers (myself included) really likes Skyrim and TES. We just want it to improve.

OP I do agree with you that it can get annoying but you have to understand that if people (myself included) didn't complain, then we would be at a stalemate in the series. For example Smithing probably wouldn't be in the game. I for one think that constructive criticism is great and I think that is why Beth continues to improve their games and please us as customers.

If I may make one complaint it is the lack of variety and potency of spells! Hopefully they add some more

The one thing I do hate is when people come on, say how much SK svcks and that they'll never play it again. I mean, what's the point of coming on here an telling us this? At least state ways how they should fix the game or why it was unappealing. /rant

I like it and agree 100 %

The topic to discuss is "How someone that can have 100's of hours in a game, can still hate it so much".

I don't like how the game industry is taking a potential bad turn but that doesn't stop me from wanting to play games and remain in the industry as a designer.

Again, evolution goes no where if those that do not like the status quo do not have experience and step forward with said experience. If you like the status quo as is, of course you are not going to say anything because you feel the norm is fine. Equally, someone who has only spent five hours on the game has little weight behind their opinion on "why the game svcks." I'd rather have someone who has played Skyrim for 500 hours give me a detailed report on what they liked and didn't like as opposed to someone who either just loves it the way it is and sees no flaws or has only played the game for five hours.

I think Bethesda has figured out that if they make crappy, shallow games, mainstream players will buy and enjoy them, while longtime TES fans will buy them and complain.

v.s. making them deep Daggerfall/Morrowind style games, which is more expensive to produce, and which mainstream players will maybe buy them less, and TES fans will buy and delight.

They get the TES fans anyway. They're too addicted to NOT buy. So why bother pleasing them?

Only when the fans actually say "enough is enough I'm not getting the next one" will their opinion even matter. Like that will ever happen.

I like the base game. I just think it should be better. My main complaint is that everything is so shallow. On average, less than 10 quests each will make you the leader of any given guild. No one recognizes you for your accomplishments (barring the occasional guard). etc.

What's there is good, but it could have been great. And the updates since release appear to be written by an intern who doesn't understand the code.

I agree with this. The questline ends... confuse me.
It's basically:

I have no quarrel with those who seek improvement. I'm speaking of the trend precisely as I have explained it.

Yet who are you to judge other players? You're saying "I don't understand why you spend 100+ hours on a game you hate."

You're being very vague and general.

Skyrim, on console, to me is not up to snuff because of various reasons including balance, lack of depth and bugs. I no longer play it because it crashes on me quite often. However, I recognize that if things were better balanced (which I advocate) I would begin playing it again. Currently, I do hate it because I feel it svcks, but if improvements were made I would most definitely pick it up again. I spend 100+ hours on it, and on the forums, because I am a game designer, so studying design, talking mechanics, etc is what I do in the real world.

So, because I am consistent by admitting that I like Skyrim while at the same time having invested over 150 hours into the game, I must also like the status quo and I won't say anything because I want to perpetually remain within the comfortable confines of the status quo? Please tell me that is not your retort. I have no quarrel with constructive criticism and I do not consider such "complaining". However, my post is with regard to the trend of those who most vigorously complain about aspects of the game that should be clear "showstoppers" to anyone using their tone... yet at the same time, not only have they played over 100 hours, but they are still posting their colorful and obviously deliberate complaints on the message board of the game itself. Presumably, they are still playing it.

I think you may have misunderstood my original post.

For sure. The problem is that many of the people posting here don't give detailed reports on what they liked or didn't (as I've noticed you do), but rather harp on the same themes of laziness, nostalgia, greed and incompetence that is neither well constructed nor constructive. It even goes so far as sophomoric personal attacks on the studio's executive producer. As a thoughtful poster of constructive criticism, try not to take others' frustrations at so called "haters" as being directed at your rather noble aims.

Where have you placed your own criticisms, because I have certainly seen none in here. You are presenting yourself as being fine with the status quo because you have not shown any support against it other than to say "I am fine with constructive criticism," but then you double back to put "complain" in the same and following sentences.

Once again, who is better to detail what is "wrong" or "broken" with a product than someone who has spent a great deal of time with it?

If someone is fine with the product as is, and spent a lot of time with it, they will gloss over or find no faults because they are fine with what they have.

If someone has only spent five hours with the product then their opinion probably does not have as much weight.


In the case you bring up however, it could simply be due to lack of ability to put together words thoughtfully. They simply want to get their point across, that they dislike something, and so use the simplest terms possible:

I HATE SMITHING!

While others, like myself, are able to explain it out better... except my bottom line is the same as theirs:

I HATE SMITHING!