This is pretty much it.

I made a Warrior character to do the Companions and the main quest
I made a Mage character to do the College of Winterhold
I made a Thief character do to the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild
I made an Imperial Legionnaire character to join the Imperial Legion, but once I finished the Legion I was so dumbfounded at how crappy the faction was that I couldn't believe Bethesda had made it. Won't do Stormcloaks.
I made a 'Paladin' character who wandered between the holds doing any quest he could find, rooting out vampires, werewolves, undead, and other mischief.

Done. Very few interesting quests I haven't seen after my Paladin. All of the factions completed, none of them nearly long enough except maybe the Dark Brotherhood. 165 hours clocked on Steam which includes restarting my Mage and warrior character, trying to roleplay a Dunmer refugee from Morrowind, and screwing around with mods. Nothing else to see, move along Outlander. Now I can sit around on the forums saying how shallow Skyrim is and what little there was to do compared to Morrowind while waiting for a DLC that I know won't be anything like what I would hope for but here's to dreamers.

I can relate to all of that, similar experiences. Put a lot of hours in, but my feeling at the end of the day, is that Skryim is a beautiful platform from which a really great game could be made.

No contradiction. You just don't understand criticism. That, and SR is a long game. You can spend a lot of time waiting and hoping for the awesome to pop up around the corner, and...in Skyrim, all you tend to get is another fetch quest.

Character development is crap. They traded a poorly developed quality system and replaced it with a poorly developed ok system. Grinding skills still exists. There is almost no depth for those of us that like to put a little thought into character builds. Beyond choosing a handful of on/off switch perks characters in Skyrim are little more than dress-up dolls.

Arguments like what I made is criticism. They had a chance to improve upon and perfect the system they had instead they threw together a hodgpodge of stupidly named unlinked constellations. Oh well. It's still a workable system. Just not even close to what they could have done given the number of years they had to develop something of quality.


Really bad comparison... Uh.... really bad...


Do you want to see an example of people that have difficulty thinking systematically? Look at the developers that created the character development system. I bet they didn't even know it was a system.

Strictly speaking, you might be correct if you said that the voice acting was 100x more prevalent in Skyrim than in Morrowind. What voices Morrowind did have were very well voiced, especially the Dunmer. In Morrowind I find myself running up to people to try and get them to acknowledge me, while in Skyrim I give NPCs a wide berth in hopes I don't draw their attention to hear the same line again.

Give Morrowind some credit, each NPC had a dozen or so different lines that depended on how much they liked you and a few other factors. And the greetings were generic, or basic enough that it really didn't sound bad if they were recycled often. "Ugh. What do you want, Outlander?" quickly became "Yes, Outlander? I...think I've heard of you before..." as you gained reputation, and if someone liked you, you might even get an 'Under sun and sky, Outlander. We greet you warmly..."

Much better than Have you been to the Cloud district lately? Oh! What am I saying?

People are not complaining.

People like this game, but when they have played it for a significant amount of time, its shortcomings become highly noticable.
People point these shortcomings out.

This is not complaining.
This is not whining.

You shouldn't have started this thread OP. Negative people take offense when being called... negative. This thread is already infested with a swarm of complainers. They will svck the life from this thread and milk it for everything they can.

Cobblers

I agree here with the bad storytelling in this TES installment. It seems to me they just threw together story ideas without thinking of any interest or continuity in the game. I think this has alot to do with why I gave up playing it really half way through my 3rd character. Also IMHO there is no real character depth with skills or builds with the new system. Yes the perk system worked with Fallout, but why they had to try and experiment with using it in TES is beyond me. Last is the simple fact that the gameplay of the series has become way too simplified and streamlined for my taste anymore. In the end the TES games have just become to shallow to keep my interest for more then a month or two now. Which is sad because I had played the hell out of Morrowind and Oblivion for many years.

Some even when as far as asking for their money back. But the complainer wasn't a 100+ player.

Life is full of either walkers or talkers. The talkers will complain when they dislike something; whether they really do or not. the walkers will just move on. Forums tend to have more talkers than walkers by their very nature.

Whether you like or dislike any RPG depends on what you expect from it and what you put into it yourself. Some say making your own rules is "gimping" and shouldn't be necessary, but for me that is part of the role playing. Whether they are good or bad (by common standards) we all have values, morales, and rules that we live our lives by. The RPG experience for me is about creating a different set of rules to my normal life and seeing how it rolls. I want to be given a world and to be able to live a fantasy life, Skyrim does this pretty damn well IMO.

Complaints should be about technical issues, that others can hopefully help out with, or the developers can address if necessary. But a lot of the complaints I see are really from people who aren't best suited to playing RPGs, or they want something the game doesn't have in which case go make your own rather than complain about someone elses work.

Meh, not sure where I'm going with this so I'll shut up now.

I hate this argument (yes, the underlined one). TES games won't improve much if the devs aren't given constructive criticism on their work. I don't have to make a better game than Skyrim to point out its many shortcomings.

Ayup. We're not game developers, we'll never be game developers, and have no desire to be. But we are experienced gamers, we paid our money for it, and we know when something doesn't work very well, or isn't done very well, and could use improvement. And it's our duty to point those things out, rather than just ignore all the warts and say "Yes sir, thank you for all these warts, sir, may we have some more warts, please?" Without plenty of people continuously pointing out the ugly warts, they would be completely ignored by the devs. Our hope, and our inspiration, is that they won't be.

Ahem...

Haha.
I'm also currently making a game with the program RPGMaker 2000, so there's that...

I've worked in the industry and am currently in school to get back in the industry in a different position, as well as working on a mobile app.

Yeah, I knew that from posts of yours I read in the past. My "haha" was commenting on that, actually.

I like the game and put over 400 hours into it, but I still have some complaints that it lacks something the series used to have. Everyone that knows the series well should know that Skyrim had ups and downs compared to it's predecessors, but as a fan it was expected, Bethesda has aimed for each TES game to be different since after Daggerfall. If your a game designer or just a gamer playing the game, go ahead and look into every feature and put your thoughts into them, I say it's perfectly okay to criticize, it gives Bethesda ideas on what to improve on. One thing is for sure about TESVI, things will be taken out, new things will be put in, and the new things can possibly be the return of some older features. For example, carriages, which uses the same traveling system as the silt striders.

Skyrim, unfortunately, has been a nice picture of "let's see what we can take away."

Skyrim, to me, is to TES as Halo Reach (and potentially Halo 4) was to Halo.

Skyrim is Beth's Dragon Age II.

I wholeheartedly agree. It's rather unfortunate. Even mods can't make up for Skyrim's terrible writing.

Hey, hey, hey, that's unfair! Dragon Age 2 still has classes and attributes

It's not even big things like that, there's small things that just don't make sense.

Spells require a set amount of Magicka to be cast. If you don't have said Magicka, you can't cast the spell.

Power Attacks, Shield Bashes, etc use up Stamina, as evident that when you perform them a chunk is subtracted from your current Stamina, leading the player to believe that performing said actions requires said Stamina. However, that "chunk" proves to be purely cosmetic because even if you have less Stamina, for instance only having 25 when the "chunk" is 50, you can still use the action.

That makes no sense.

Spells need a set Magicka.
Power Attacks are nearly 100% Stamina free.


I'm sorry I insulted BioWare.

All the rambling in this thread aside, I see and agree with what I think the basic point of the OP is: There are people who detest aspects of the game so passionately that they will spend their free time complaining and arguing over it, not to mention spending money and 100+ hours of their free time on the game.

Anyone who feels so strongly as to use words like 'hate' etc must be complete idiots to keep playing... Those who hate aspects of the game or feel the game is broken should logically move on. (And I'm not talking about people who still enjoy the game, obviously).

Bottom line is if you are having a severely negative reaction to playing Skyrim then you'd be an idiot to spend your time playing it or on its forum, unless someone is paying you to QA it.
I can see the irony mentioned by the OP...

Most of this thread is derating the complainers who spend 100+ hours in skyrim, and relating or comparing this game to Morrowind.


Is this going to be an ongoing thing? I mean seriously.


[censored].... Elder Scrolls XX: Lagfest.


"NNOOOOOOO IT'S NOT AS GOOD AS MORROWIND!"
"RAAAAGE!!!!"


Seriously. I even question the judgement if anyone can even read. There IS a seperate forum for Morrowind. Go there, please.

Funny thing is, I've never played Morrowind. I'm comparing it strictly to Oblivion, and possibly a bit of FallOut 3 and New Vegas.

As well as other RPGs.