I didn't know about that, but now that I know I still won't use it because you are right it would break the game for me. I would have smithing at L100 will my other skills are still around L20. It would unbalance the game, and Bethesda should hear about such exploits so that they can improve the system in the next game.

However you could choose to ignore it, couldn't you? Just like you could ignore the high level gear in Morrowind at L1. So if you would ignore such exploits, would you stil feel that smithing isn't rewarding? if you actually had to invest time to get it to L100 (like I'm doing now), would you still feel like it isn't an accomplishment?

In a way I'm happy that you're telling me that it is an exploit that has diminished your enjoyment. Since I am not using it, being able to craft the best gear once I'm around L40, could still be rewarding to me. I was fearful that it wasnt based on what you were saying. So it is good to know what you just told me.

Also, what I wish is that Bethesda had made the best gear in the game uncraftable and simply made them rewards at the end of long questlines and dungeons. Once you have daedric gear the rest of the game becomes pointless and unrewarding.

I can understand this, but on the other hand if the best gear couldnt be crafted than why invest in smithing? You would never feel like a master smith anyway so getting it to L100 would be pointless. A better solution would be to make reaching L100 very hard, which it might be without the exploit you mentioned. I'll have to get back to you on that in about 10-15 hours

I see you didnt feel the need to answer the questions I kept asking in previous posts and make it a two-sided discussion. I'll be going now but I would like to leave you with this tip:

If you find that smithing is a game-breaking experience, than stop using it. I don't want to sound like a Bethesda-apologist, as bethesda very much deserves blame for making smithing so easily exploitable. However it is your own game enjoyment. So keep mentioning how much you dislike the exploit and at the same time stop using smithing (or the exploit) and make your own fun.

Crafting skills would be really disappointing to invest in if you could just find better stuff. Smithing ought to get you better gear than someone without smithing, but they'll probably end up tweaking the way it works in future games to avoid Iron Dagger Syndrome the same way they've been trying to limit your ability to grind magic skills by repeat casting. Maybe they just need to make it so crafting top-level gear is as much of an adventure as aquiring artifacts, like if Daedric could only be made at a Demon Forge built on the ruins of an Oblivion Gate an smithed under a new moon with a hammer infusted with the soul of a Dremora Lord or something like that.

If you don't want smithing to feel cheap, don't take advantages of glitches or exploits. Do it like everyone else does, the honest way. You chose to make it cheap. Point utterly refuted.

You don't have to pick up all the loot. And if you do you can enchant and sell my friend. Sharpen and improve fitting and give to a companion? Perhaps decorate your home with it? I dunno.



Well you are a normal person asides from being dovahkiin. You want your own fashion label then learn to smith. And why wouldn't bandits be armoured? You expect them to fight you wearing rags?

The game has alot of different kinds of apparel. You don't just have to wear what gives you the best defence rating at the time.

Did you do any Deadric quests? They really give you a sense of accomplishment! I remember getting my Ebony Mail, good times. good times!

That's cool but double enchanted Legendary Daedric says hi.

And a part of that is because of leveled gameplay wich skyrim has

I like this idea . It would be much more fun and rewarding to have to aquire unique items for top-level gear! It feels a little odd to be able to craft Daedric armor at a common everyday forge using items picked up around town (the hearts are a bit harder to come by but still fairly easy to obtain)

its worse than you think, once you find a sword or armor in a dungeon somewhere all of a sudden every merchant is stocking it... its the same problem as NPCs, quests, most creatures, and treasure have, they all revolve round the player in the most obvious of ways. The only people who can immerse themselves in this game would be just as happy with a board game...

Just wanna add my name to the list of people finding bandits in Dwarven armor. I've also found them using ebony weapons--though they're much more rare than the Dwemer clothiers. It happens.

I've got to chime in and agree with those saying Smithing is a gamebreaker.

Once you have smithing up to level 90, you've pretty much obtained your final gear, as most high-level items are unimprovable via crafting (in Vanilla of course, http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4719 and http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=1020 fixes this).

On my first playthrough, I hit that spot around level 15. For a game supposedly designed with a 1-50 level progression in mind, you got a pretty boring endgame.

The game should at least recognise what you've done, I'm sick of Imperial soldiers telling me "leave, citizen, this is Imperial business" when I'm a Legate in the Legion and killed Ulfric/won the war and united Skyrim. Guards also ask if somebody stole my sweet role when I saved Skyrim from Alduin, am Dragonborn and have helped Skyrim a great deal. The game has no idea whether you've achieved anything or not, very dissapointing.

Skyrim's reward system is designed for people who need a constant sense of gratification no matter how small in their gaming experience. There is very little reward in doing a single damn thing in Skyrim. Hell just look at the Daedric Artifacts. They are not even all that good. You can make weapons yourself that are better than some of those the most powerful and oldest beings in the game world(Daedric Princes) can make. And you do it easily.

Everything always feels unrewarding in terms of gain in Skyrim. Even Oblivion was better than this for me. At least if you found shadowrend it was one of the more powerful weapons you could get your hands on. Now derp...make a few hundred iron daggers and then put a few perks into smithing and you have yourself god gear. Better than every unique item you can find. Easily better too.

That is not even mentioning the very lacking sense of impact from quests on the gameworld and on NPCs

A lot of the complaints are centered around the fact that smithing is so powerful as well as enchanting. You can easily make gear that is far beyond the "leveled loot" in dungeons. I have yet to take a single perk in a crafting skill because of how much I've read that Master difficulty is a joke for them and that loot in dungeons is pretty much meaningless.

It′s an elder scroll game, you can beat the game using only an iron dagger and wrappings if you learn to master the controls well enough.

In the end, the sense of accomplishment in any game is only a false sense of accomplishment, you haven′t actually accomplished anything, you didn′t successfully perform heart surgery on someone, or sell a real estate, or design a dress, or give birth to a child...you leveled up an imaginary character in an imaginary world. The sense of accomplishment is only relative to how much attachment you develop for the game, for me the sense of accomplishment of getting a unique item that fits my character is much more than the sense of accomplishment I get from crafting a better and more powerful weapon. If it suits my character to run around with the Mace of Bolrag I will happily use it even if I could potentially make a better mace at the forge.

But it does speak volumes when I'm way more excited over seeing that colored special loot in Diablo II than I am over anything I find in a treasure chest in this game. Mostly because Diablo doesn't care about what level you are. You can't use good items until your attributes or skill reaches the level necessary to use the item. TES games had no such limitations, and after Morrowind, they decided to make the dungeon loot be nothing but mediocre stuff for your level with the occasional special loot in order to keep your character from being overpowered.

But they forgot to attach limitations on crafting in this game, so you can still be uber, but not through exploration.

I'm not asking to be Godly like I can through crafting. But I do expect that master locked chest at the end of the dungeon to contain more than a few gold, some weak potions, and a steel armor item with an enchantment when I'm level 50.

Yes. If you beleive smithing and it's exploit will ruin your game, then don't use it, it's your game after all, play it the way you want. If someone else chooses to take advantage of an exploit, it's their game let them play it the way they want. Why the fuss. Again, just don't use it if it bothers you.

And who forces the player to do this? Learn some self control...Damn.

If you think smithing is broken in this game, just imagine how overpowered it would be if it was like it was in Oblivion where you could improve smithing in the field by repairing your weapons & armor while dungeon delving. Smithing allows you to create/improve armor *only* at a forge, but getting the materials is not too easy and it's not really overpowering until you spend some time improving your enchanting skill, which is significantely more difficult than smithing in vanilla Skyrim. I still have not created a single enchanted item, and the majority of my skill improvement so far in enchanting came from recharging my weapons. If you have a limitless supply of cash to get materials for smithing and you max enchanting early you might find your experience ruins the game for you. I get the feeling that a significant number of people complaining about some of the exploits have used such exploits extensively. That is fine, it's a single player game, to each their own. I would be much happier if they would first focus on fixing the game's many bugs first, as the exploits only effect those who use them for their own advantage.

Personally, I liked the progression of loot. Gradually improving my gear over time: Fur & Hide, to Leather, to Scale, to Elven, to Glass. Finding better enchanted pieces to improve my situation. Completing a Daedric quest and getting the artifact sword Dawnbreaker (which I could never craft). Finally getting my Smithing high enough (sometime in the 30's?) to improve my looted magic items. Finding a rare Daedric 1-h sword in a dragon's horde in the high 40's. (Daedric and dragon seems pretty rare. Only found about six pieces total, between daedric armor & weapons, and dragonscale/plate.)

Great stuff.




My first character couldn't do double enchantments until I was in the high 50's. And that was only after I'd done the MQ, the Civil War, and a bunch of other stuff, and decided to see if enchanting was more interesting at high levels. (Since it was useless before that - I could never enchant anything that was better than the loot I found.)

I often find unique stuff. Elven armor and weapons, Dwarven weapons, and Orcish Weapons are common. So are glass weapons in the hands of Dominion warriors, but they make those. In order to get valuable goods, you have to delve into dungeons, fight

Yes, I know about this. I grind Iron Daggers, but in more than 50 hours of gameplay, I have yet to get more than 70 Smithing. If you do the "Grind Daggers + Wait 24 Hours for Shop Reset", you're abusing the system and being an idiot - That's no different than using Hadvar or Ralof to grind your 1- or 2-handed skill to 100 in the starting dungeon, or a corpse+Soul Trap to grind Conjuration.

I couldn't stand to waste as much in-game time as some people do to grind smithing and enchanting. I never wait more than 10 hours at a time (Dusk to Dawn), because there's still daylight to use.

You also still have to acquire the materials to create your weapons and armor - On my light-armored character it took several in-game days before I found enough Refined Malachite to create and upgrade a full suit of Glass armor.

Finding enough soul-gems to raise enchanting to 100, and investing enough perks to empower your enchantments also takes a long time. By the time I've gotten powerful enchantments, I feel like I've earned it.

Whining that there's no more progression after getting 100 Enchanting and Smithing is like saying there's no more progression for your character once you've maxed and perked your Weapon and armor Skill.

Yes, the game has hardly any sense of accomplishment. Let me shed some light why that is for you and MANY others.

1.) AI is horrible and enemy pathing is atrocious
2.) Level scaling of enemies are out of whack and completely stops at 50
3.) Itemization is static
4.) Crafting makes found items obsolete
5.) Gold does not matter.
6.) Skills cap out at 100 (which can be easily done early on)
7.) Levels are arbitrary and provide little to no benefit other than serving as a benchmark where you acquire a new Perk point.
8.) Perks are way too powerful in most cases.
9.) The Enchant system scales out of control. (Fortifying your primary damage skill is a problem for how effective it is)
10.) Sneaking makes you 100% invisible almost all the time perked.
11.) Dragons are not challenging.
12.) Almost no incentive to explore, chests do not have very valuable loot.
13.) Faction or guild quests are not challenging or give a good sense of progression (ranks are gone)
14.) Hardly any tiers of items or models even
15.) Upgrading and progression, particularly item progression is way too quick to be impactful and rewarding
16.) Most enemies can be side stepped or kited infinitely never even taking a point of damage
17.) Save / load makes everything not feel dangerous. Almost no risk
18.) Dying is a VERY rare occurance, you basically need to be AFK to die
19.) Dialogue choices or story choices do not really have an impact or alter your course
20.) I could go on - but really?