You haven't even played Skyrim have you? 2 spells at once, oh wow, I could have 8+ in previous games. Half the perks are either damage modifiers, or magicka reduction prerequisites. Very few actually diversify builds in some meaningful way that hasn't been seen in previous ES games.

You already can get results just getting 100% reduction and spamming impact; its also incredibly dumb and boring

Grinding alchemy to increase damage is extremely time consuming and causes level skewing from enemy scaling; might as well just grind crafting all the way and ruin the fun of playing all together.

And telling people to have self restraint and limit themselves to some arbitrary amount is silly; because that's more about spending time "making sure you don't get too powerful" than just playing.

Perks and scaling.

You should no more be able use the first spell you get to tide you through the rest of the game, than an iron dagger should.

This could all be rectified with scaling.

Lets hope for the future guys! Why do people always fight in forums, it's kind of funny.

Maybe we should have an Occupy Bethesda!

Occupying is so chique these days.

If you one shot everything as a mage, you would be back here complaining about how everything was easy and how mages are over powered...

And it is the same routine for any class.

Thief sneaks up and slits throat, shoot arrow, move on. Get ambushed and die screaming like a child or run and hide to come back and try again....

Warrior charges in with weapon X and bash in skulls, get swarmed and die screaming like a child...

Mage goes in, creates mayham, summons a few tanks, takes a few pot shots with a weapon or spell, goes down the cave laughing with glee counting new shiney coins..

When you abuse X, Y, and Z mechanics, all 3 one shot everything than come to the forums to complain about how over powered they are...

Its really the lack of SC and limited effects list that does it, buts that's a whole other conversation.
Then why did you bring up the play styles? You brought it up, not me. I just made three statements.

You said the options were gone, somehow less in Skyrim.

There are more options through perks and dual wieldling, and somehow I find something wrong with having 8 spells at once... though perhaps thats just me.

There are more options available to mages, even without spellcrafting. Sorry.

I feel you on that all the way. Alchemy is such a pain to grind, but decent potions can be made after reaching 40 in Alchemy, and that alone is enough to provide a significant boost.

The sad truth is that this is the only existing way to provide any damage scaling beyond the gimpy perks provided. Until something is done by Bethesda, that is the only option available to players.

No, there isn't. Its a fact. there are less spells, spell effects and no spell creation in Skyrim. Numbers don't lie.

I feel ya. I know its a touchy subject with people, the change in magic that is. Just to be clear, I was referring to the difference in melee and magic players with the play style comment, don't look into it too hard.

They should have added more cone of effect / breath spells. I was pretty disappointed that they svck after level 5.

my level 50 mage that has mastery in conjuring, destruction, enchanting, alchemy, and alteration begs to differ, I'm pretty much owning everything with out breaking a sweat, and im on mastery difficulty

magic is actually OP

I'm not kidding

sure I do use the balanced magic mod but who does not

You know what might be neat. If the points you get for a magic school's skill level could be distributed to individual spells to augment them.
Then a person who likes to use flame runes and walls for traps can still use that tactic effectively at higher levels.

I use balanced magic mod and it does THAT try it

Just bring back spell creation. No more complains, ever.

You don't even know how to play a mage.

Agree to disagree then.

Two hands plus the myriad of perks, plus the freedom to create less archetypical mages through having an extra hand to hold weapon/staff/shield/magic AND enchanting and alchemy (smithing to an extent as well) as addons just seems like more options to me.

How is it not exactly?

This isn't a post about mods that change the mechanics nor a soap box for rubbing your own ego. It's a post about Bethesda's awful decisions of how the scaling of magic is handled.

With that said, have anything constructive to add for those who don't have the option to play on PC?

spell creation svcked HARD, ever since I got Midas spells AND balanced magic mod I pretty much have 200 + spells to use AT ALL LEVELS in the game

Numbers don't lie. Two hands does nothing for build diversity. It just ups damage, duration, and in some cases level effect. I already said why the perks don't add much. There are definitely less magical based build types (mainly has to do with no SC) available in Skyrim than in previous ES games (less than Dagger, Morrowind and Oblivion, not Arena per say). Couple that with less effects and no SC, and you have less, not more.

What did get better? The graphics and a few decisions, namely to make Necromancy part of a skill, one new delivery system, and a select few perks that do add something. But we lost more than we gained.

They're called Shouts

I have a 50 level 100 Health Mage on Master without a single crafted item (yes not even 100% cost reduction in destruction, what a failure mage)

It is true I die often, mostly to dragons or deathlord archers that can OHKO me from a distance. A bandit chief within melee distance will automatically start his finisher move. And even lowly 15 level mages can be dangerous. Hell, mud crabs can take me out in 3 hits.

But at no point in game was there ever a fight I couldn't win with the use of stealth, minions, terrain, ethereal shout, invisibility, mana potions and some fancy footwork. (mod to remove magnetism from all enemy and player attacks so you can sidestep attacks)

Okay, yeah whatever... keep telling yourself that. I'm done.

I think that's the real problem with this game. Dragons.

With that said, where are the Dragon mounts? I mean, come on!!!

hmmm well UNmodded I did have trouble at early levels

BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT if you can get enchanting to 100 early and enchant stuff for 100% reduction in mana (destruction is preferred) coupled with the stagger perk your mage will be God, ALTHOUGH you will die from arrows or melee or magic very quickly even if u can have dragon skin spell

so the secret to the unmodded magic is get 100 enchanting make amazing gear and summon a tank then spam dual spells