In the event anyone has avoided this perk because of it's relatively lame description: Crouching stops combat for a moment and forces distant opponents to search for a target. allow me to explain how F-ing cool it really is.

If you are face-to-face with an opponent meleeing and crouch what you actually do is:
1) blink invisible for an instant into a cloud of black-green smoke
2) jump behind the opponent and slash their throat for an instant kill
3) sometimes the target will actually say something stupid like: "I'm gonna' find you!" or "Where are you?" They almost always find me/find out within a few seconds.

I believe you have to push the joystick forward as you attack for the throat slash animation to go off, but the point is: Shadow Warrior is so worth the Perk point.

I agree. It is better than I thought it would be. I haven't had much success turning it into an Assasin's Blade kill the way you describe... I usually run behind something to get back to "hidden" status first.

My problem with the shadow warrior was that I was invariably in sneak mode when I needed to use it. So as far as I could tell what I had to do was come out of sneak, thus making sure enemies who hadn't already seen mean now did, then duck back into sneak again. Somehow the supposed benefits never seemed to happen. At any rate I seemed to get better results by, depending on the situation, going into "blender mode" by using both daggers in dual wield then running away, still in sneak mode, to become hidden from other bad guys or just running away before sneaking back to have another go.

Like so many other benefits from perks/shouts in the game, by the time they are available to me I don't actually need them, which incidentally is my biggest complaint about the perk/levelling system in Skyrim.

Damn. I was about to finally reward my assassin character with this perk, but won't now that I read your post. Seems to suite a berzerker type better than a sneaky type who can't be seen by default.

It's still very useful for a sneaky character, especially out in the open world. When facing dragons for example, and you're about to lose the battle, Shadow Warrior can really save your behind.

I do have the 15x Backstab perk so maybe the throat slash animation depends upon that?

It comes in handy for me if I'm upright and come around a corner and someone/something is there. I can drop down and attack and the animation kicks off. Also, if you're running upright you don't have to put as much distance between you and your pursuers to escape because when you get a little distance and drop down they'll give up.

And, yeah, a lot of the really cool perks are at the tops of the constellations and aren't 'lifesavers' by the time you get them.

The throat slit is not perk/weapon dependent. You need to be doing a damage > enemy health. With a sharp sword + backstab you can trigger it everytime.

This is the disadvantage of sneak alone- the old run away with tail between legs till you are hiding around a corner.
Pick up invisibility and you can cut combat instantly.

I still got a couple unused points, I might consider this one. Sounds kinda neat.

Yeah, my Ebony Daggers are super-Legendary (154 damage) and with the 15x (30x if I'm wearing the DB stuff) Backstab that would make the animation go off every time.


Edit:
Yeah, I really like it and it's description belies it's coolness.

Works really well with my Argonian Vampire!

Dont even have to sneak half the time either if you have that perk where running doesnt get you discovered.. just run and backstab!

Assassin's blade does seem to increase the chance to 100% if you have it though

Then I don't know what to tell you. There are obvious things that you can tell will disrupt its going off:
If the enemy is in another animation
If the enemy is sitting/lying/struggling/paralyzed
If you think you are hidden but have not really broken combat (happens alot with just sneak)

These things will stop the animation from happening, if you make sure these are not factoring it, the animation will happen almost every time, since the damage > hp is the decision maker. If you still aren't getting the animation, it must be a personal problem.


Yes, this is a different animation I think we are talking about. I believe you are thinking of the one where you grab their shoulder and drive the blade in the back, I am refering to the throat cut.

Oh- if on PC get killmove and 100% animation mods- then bandit camps get really fun- just sprint everywhere spamming invisibility and doing finishers, its a slaughter in the water.

I have found that Shadow Warrior does help a little bit, especially when facing a scattered group(s) of opponents. I always take the perk, if not just to round out a perfect silent assassin.

And when crouching amidst combat, your character's animation, with the black wisp and smoke, is very, very, cool.
So take the perk, my friend.

And to the throat-cutting animation question: I always hold down the attack button (power attack), and that seems to help initiate the cinematic cutting of the jugular.

There is more to stealth than just the sneaking position itself. That is to say, if stealth is thought of as merely hit crouch and hope high enough skill, then a whole dimension is missed. First, your placement and knowledge of surroundings should never be accidental or incidental. It should be the first thing on your mind as you approach any enemy or group of them. As Q told Bond, always have an escape route. I am conscious of all really dark, shadowy areas or places with a lot of cover (pillars, rocks, corner turns) to hide behind I find along the way. Often, if I come across an enemy or several in a not so good area, I will draw them back to an assassin's playground passed up earlier (bow shot arrows work wonders).

If you are sneaking successfully (in sneak mode), you should not need to recrouch as nothing detects you anyway. If you were heard but not seen and are sneaking, and are still out of line of sight, you are probably in shadows and a quick stand up and crouch again will work. If you are already detected, all is not lost. For one, thing other enemies may not be aware of you even if one is. They will go into search mode in reaction to the detection of the one nearby spotting you, but until they actually see you, that's as far as they are. Falling back quickly in sneak, or even standing up to run if the others are still out of direct line of sight, to a place out of sight of the one that spotted you in a shadowy area and recrouching to activate the shadow perk thing will lose them all. I have even sneak attacked a draugr deathlord who survived initial attack, stood up and recrouched to sidestep his investigate, and because of this perk finished him off on the other side of his back when he turned around. Incidentally, you can do the same with calm following a backstab with swift repositioning in sneak, and thus it is not necessary to get 100 sneak to simulate the effect of this perk early on (though it would not work with undead, automatons, or daedra without master of the mind).

So while I would agree that it is a perk you can be successful at stealth without, I would not call it useless by a long shot. It simply increases your options and is very cool.

How many stealth perks would you need to get for it to work properly if you use the Ebony Mail? I only have enough for one if Im gonna get the Shadow Warrior perk.

Mine does go off most of the time...no "personal problem" here. I was merely expanding on your comment that "damage > hp" is what makes it go off by saying that with the damage my Ebony daggers do coupled with the 15x Backstab perk is probably a higher number than any single target has HP.

I plan my Sneaks carefully. I stay against walls and away from light sources as much as possible to minimize silhouette, keep my distance from targets to minimize sound (I have Muffled Movement and wear light armor, but don't usu use the Shrouded Boots from the DB set), etc. Even being careful every now and then one of the enemies in a room may turn at an inopportune moment while I'm killing one of their cohorts so the Shadow Warrior perk comes in handy then.

I'm guessing 7 at the least. That will get you the 6x Backstab (with Legendary weapons that may be enough damage to 1-shot) and Muffled Movement (50% armor noise reduction; also a pre-req to get to Shadow Warrior). If you want the 15x Backstab then 9 perks. I don't think you have to do the 5/5 Stealth to get past it - I think you just need 1, right?


Edit: Does the Ebony Mail come as a full set or just a body piece? If just a body piece, can you wear other pieces of "Ebony" armor for the "Matching Set" perk?

I may have to sacrifice a Destruction or Restoration perk then. Owell. I made him a battlemage (more of a warrior) assassin, in part, cause the Ebony Mail's poison effects stack with Destruction cloaks and I wanted a long range attack option.

The problem with Ebony Mail is that I would be missing out on some of the light armor perks I've taken. Does anybody else feel as though archers and light armor types are totally neglected in the unique items category?

I use Shadow Warrior the way Nightshade Assassin describes. If you are detected while in sneak. uncrouch and recrouch and poof, you're gone. You can sprint behind cover crouching and uncrouching and time your final crouch with diving behind cover. The eye goes from detected to hidden almost immediately.

I was just asking specifically about the "Stealth" perks which has 5 ranks.

Oh, yeah, I 'toggle' it too when I've booted a Sneak operation.

Ah, I think just 1. I usu take 5/5 in the bottom perks of any constellation I use, but as I read them you just need 1 to pass them. Surely someone who knows for sure will come along to verify.

Wearing Ebony Mail with Ebony armor doesnt seem to hurt my sneaking ability even if Im right in front of them in daylight. I also have the boots enchanted with muffle though.

I already passed them (only 2 perks left) but I was wondering how many would I need in order for the Shadow Warrior perk to work properly, as in being undetected.

Well, since you have to have 100 Sneak to get the Perk I think you'll be OK. I go waayyy overboard with 4 pieces Enchanted with 40% Sneak bonus on them.

Interesting. Thanks.


Edit:
OK, good - it's not just me who notices that then.

It's not the sneaking ability it hurts for me, it's the fact that all the light armor perks require you to wear a full set of light armor. Ebony Mail is classified as heavy.