Sheogorath plot gap? [Oblivion and Skyrim Spoiler] : V - Skyrim

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:08 am

he is quiet mad you know.....

tea...

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:28 am

Everything in the games and all expansions and DLC are cannon, whether you like it or not.

This isnt a matter of what I like or dont like, it just is... think about it, the CoC who saved the world from Oblivion, then decides to go into oblivion to help a technicly evil daedric lord.. I dont see that happing, personally I find it illogical, therefore the CoC is NOT Sheogorath.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:27 pm

I think he is, but it really doesn't matter whichever way. Bethesda likes to do things like that.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:57 am

This isnt a matter of what I like or dont like, it just is... think about it, the CoC who saved the world from Oblivion, then decides to go into oblivion to help a technicly evil daedric lord.. I dont see that happing, personally I find it illogical, therefore the CoC is NOT Sheogorath.

Just because you think its illogical doesnt mean it didnt happen.
And Sheogorath isnt technically evil...hes just insane. Mas as a hatter.And again saying that is illogical and taht he wouldnt do it rules out the DLC, but the DLC is cannon, so therefore he is.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:50 pm

Which means he was aware of some of the events during the Oblivion crisis.
It does not prove he is the CoC.
He is the Daedric lord of madness and as such is 'present' in the mind of every mortal.
Im not saying that is what he meant, its a different and equally valid explanation.

dude..just stop..what's the point of arguing facts? the coc became sheogorath, that's canon lore. end of story. just like the nerevarine DID defeat dagoth ur, and the dragonborn DID defeat alduin. that's the lore, deal with it.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:44 am

What makes you think it never happened? There are no books about it because it was only truly witnessed by one individual who ended up in Akavir. I guess there is also a small northern village of Nords that witnessed small parts but odds are that by the time those stories travel to any scribe it will sound like there was a werewolf attack (very VERY common in Skyrim lore) and some Nord got drunk at a mead house and told a great tale (also very common in lore)

If Bloodmoon really happend Lycanthropes would no longer exist. If the Shivering isles really happend Jyggalag, now asuming all of Sheogoraths power plus the power he once had, would bring order to the realms of oblivion thus destroying the other Daedric lords.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:49 pm

Which means he was aware of some of the events during the Oblivion crisis.
It does not prove he is the CoC.
He is the Daedric lord of madness and as such is 'present' in the mind of every mortal.
Im not saying that is what he meant, its a different and equally valid explanation.

He says sheogorath is a title passed down from me to me indicating the events of Shivering Isles did happen.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:21 pm

If Bloodmoon really happend Lycanthropes would no longer exist. If the Shivering isles really happend Jyggalag, now asuming all of Sheogoraths power plus the power he once had, would bring order to the realms of oblivion thus destroying the other Daedric lords.

No, Jyggalag wouldnt get Sheogoraths power because the CoC or the new Sheogorath now has them and it wouldnt be insta-boom power restored. Like I already stated he has no armies of daedra and no plane of Oblivion, where is all the power he would "supposedly" have.
No matter what you say or argue, all DLC and expansions there have been are cannon, this isnt up for debate, this is pure 100% fact. Dont like it? tough. The shivering isles did happen, the CoC did become Sheogorath and jyggalag was freed, no matter what you say, it happened and is cannon lore.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:05 am

My reaction to Sheo's dialogue about Oblivion (quoted above or earlier in the thread) was that he was the player of Oblivion who completed SI. Also, is it possible that upon completing Shivering Isles you are given the illusion of "becoming" Sheo? Is it not also possible that Sheogorath is like a "Legion" scenario where many make up the one. So sure, you are running around believing yourself to be the one Daedric God when in fact, you are a machination and one of many thousands who have also played his game, feeding his power?

Just a thought.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:08 am

Just because you think its illogical doesnt mean it didnt happen. And Sheogorath isnt technically evil...hes just insane. Mas as a hatter.And again saying that is illogical and taht he wouldnt do it rules out the DLC, but the DLC is cannon, so therefore he is.

Insanity is the very deffinition of someone being twisted and evil, for example if I were to rip out someones intestines and skip rope with them that would be considered evil, or if I ate someones brain, that too would be considered evil, in fact just thinking about doing these things would be considered evil.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:26 pm

But why did the COC decide to resume the exact same look as old Sheogorath?

I had expected a different Sheogorath

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:25 am

Insanity is the very deffinition of someone being twisted and evil, for example if I were to rip out someones intestines and skip rope with them that would be considered evil, or if I ate someones brain, that too would be considered evil, in fact just thinking about doing these things would be considered evil.

good and evil is all based on perception. What might be evil to you might not be so to others. And to bring up your old argument of "the pure champion going to help a daedric lord that is evil" Well how come that same champion joined a cult of disturbingly creepy hired assassins and go about killing innocents? And you said Sheogorath was evil!

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:34 am

But why did the COC decide to resume the exact same look as old Sheogorath?

I had expected a different Sheogorath :tongue:

maybe that's just a natural form for sheogorath

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:34 pm

But why did the COC decide to resume the exact same look as old Sheogorath?

I had expected a different Sheogorath :tongue:

im glad he looks and sounds the same. Shows the CoC truly grew into his/her role. Plus it wouldn't be Sheogorath without Wes Johnson voice actim him

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:08 am

But why did the COC decide to resume the exact same look as old Sheogorath?

I had expected a different Sheogorath :tongue:

I've mostly thought that the COC didn't have a choice in transformng into Sheogorath and that sitting on the throne as the daedric prince of madness slowly corrupted them over time. The original Sheogorath probably knew this and was able to manifest himself through the COC.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:01 pm

Yes, he most certainly is, and it is hardly debatable.
Sheogorath explicitly (as explicitly as a Madgod can anyway) said that he was there during the whole Oblivion Crisis. If it were a different Sheogorath (a true Daedra, not our morphed CoC), then he wouldn't have actually been there. He could have watched, sure, but he would not have been there

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:23 am

So I have just done the Skyrim Sheogorath quest and it got me thinking...

In Oblivion the Hero of Kevatch became Sheogorath, so does this mean when he appears in Skyrim he is the Hero of Kevatch from Oblivion?

Yep, you are talking to your character from oblivion, my understanding of lore is that whoever takes the mantel of sheorgorath BECOMES sheogorath. That and he says that he was right their beside martin durrin the whole oblivion thing.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:32 am

Insanity is the very deffinition of someone being twisted and evil, for example if I were to rip out someones intestines and skip rope with them that would be considered evil, or if I ate someones brain, that too would be considered evil, in fact just thinking about doing these things would be considered evil.

He is the embodiment of madness. Saying he is evil is no different than calling me evil for shooting a deer to eat him. It is man's nature to hunt, kill, and eat his prey. It is Sheogorath's to represent all that is crazy in the world

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:09 am

This isnt a matter of what I like or dont like, it just is... think about it, the CoC who saved the world from Oblivion, then decides to go into oblivion to help a technicly evil daedric lord.. I dont see that happing, personally I find it illogical, therefore the CoC is NOT Sheogorath.

The flaw with your argument, however, is that the Oblivion you go into through the gates lead to Mehrunes Dagon's realm. The portal to the Shivering Isles took you to Sheogorath's plane of Oblivion. Very different places for 2 different Princes.

No Daedric Prince is inherently evil, they just like to play with the minds of mortals. The most that can be said is they are asking/telling you to do morally questionable tasks. Just because you don't agree with what they want you to do, doesn't make them evil.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:18 am

good and evil is all based on perception. What might be evil to you might not be so to others. And to bring up your old argument of "the pure champion going to help a daedric lord that is evil" Well how come that same champion joined a cult of disturbingly creepy hired assassins and go about killing innocents? And you said Sheogorath was evil!

True somebody who is insane doesnt realize doing evil things such as murder is evil, but to a sane person it is, and for ppl that truly RP Oblivion and became the CoC wouldnt have the same PC join the Dark Brotherhood, they would have made another PC for that.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:39 am

He is the embodiment of madness. Saying he is evil is no different than calling me evil for shooting a deer to eat him. It is man's nature to hunt, kill, and eat his prey. It is Sheogorath's to represent all that is crazy in the world

Sheogorath is one of the "BAD" daedra, and therefore he is considered to be an evil daedric prince, but seeing as all the daedra are Padomayic they are all evil in their own way.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:16 pm

True somebody who is insane doesnt realize doing evil things such as murder is evil, but to a sane person it is, and for ppl that truly RP Oblivion and became the CoC wouldnt have the same PC join the Dark Brotherhood, they would have made another PC for that.

So now you are dictating how someone RPs?Just because somone is a killer doesnt mean they wont try and save the world from complete destruction.

After the tsunami in Japan, the Yakuza donated supplies to help. And a lot of it.

Sheogorath is one of the "BAD" daedra, and therefore he is considered to be an evil daedric prince, but seeing as all the daedra are Padomayic they are all evil in their own way.

Bad =/= evil. By your definition of Evil, you may seem them as such. I don't. In fact, most of the daedric quests in Skyrim I saw as good. Including Sheogorath's.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:29 am

The Hero of Kvatch does not become Sheogorath. Oblivion's main quest line, and only its main quest line, is the story of the Hero of Kvatch and the Champion of Cyrodiil.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:58 am

The flaw with your argument, however, is that the Oblivion you go into through the gates lead to Mehrunes Dagon's realm. The portal to the Shivering Isles took you to Sheogorath's plane of Oblivion. Very different places for 2 different Princes. No Daedric Prince is inherently evil, they just like to play with the minds of mortals. The most that can be said is they are asking/telling you to do morally questionable tasks. Just because you don't agree with what they want you to do, doesn't make them evil.

I do realise that Mehrunes Dagon's realm of oblivion and Sheogoraths realm are two different places that wasnt even the argument, and to say the daedra arnt exacly evil is like saying the aedra arnt exactly good, in fact the daedra are in lore called "Padomayic", Padomay aka Sithis is the god of death,chaos,destruction ect, therefore the daedra are evil just in their own way.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:31 am

If Bloodmoon really happend Lycanthropes would no longer exist. If the Shivering isles really happend Jyggalag, now asuming all of Sheogoraths power plus the power he once had, would bring order to the realms of oblivion thus destroying the other Daedric lords.

huh? You are confusing some lore my friend and doing it in a really big way.

Daedric Princes existed alongside Jigy and took care of him when he was in his prime, now he is some worthless wanderer that has no realm or army.
Winning the Bloodmoon contest would NOT cure/kill all werewolves, I don’t know where you got that from.